It’s June 18th, 2017. There are three days before the National Hockey League’s first expansion draft in seventeen years, and the boardroom of T-Mobile arena, the future home of the Vegas Golden Knights, is buzzing. Months of scouting, speculation on who might be available, and discussions about possible trades are finally nearing their fruition. Bill Foley, the team owner, steps out to grab another cup of coffee when a thought suddenly strikes him. He works it around in his brain for a second, then runs back into the boardroom. A pro scout who focuses on goaltending is making his pitch to General Manager George McPhee. “...Well, if we don’t take Grabovski, Jaroslav Halak is available as a potential backu-“ “Don’t you DARE speak that bastard’s name to me!” McPhee screams. He quickly snaps out of the PTSD flashback that the goalie’s name inspired and moves on. “We’ll take the centre from them and... what about that Rangers backup instead? That Raanta guy?” On the whiteboard behind them is a set of handshake deals that they have made, pending registration with the National Hockey League's office.
Anaheim trades: Shea Theodore for Expansion Draft Considerations. (Clayton Stoner) Columbus trades: 2017 1st, 2019 2nd, jack johnson, for Expansion Draft Considerations (William Karlsson) Florida trades: Reilly Smith for Expansion Draft Considerations (Jonathan Marchessault) and a 5th round pick Minnesota trades: Alex Tuch for Expansion Draft Considerations (Erik Haula) and a 3rd round pick New York trades: 2017 1st round pick, 2019 2nd round pick for Expansion Draft Considerations (Mikhail Grabovski) Tampa Bay trades: Nikita Gusev, 2017 2nd, and 2018 4th for Expansion Draft Considerations (Jason Garrison) Winnipeg trades: 2017 1st round pick and 2019 3rd round pick for Expansion Draft Considerations (Chris Thorburn) and Columbus 1st
Foley interrupts the goaltending conversation - this can't wait. "George, can I talk to you quickly?" They take a sidebar. "George, I just had a thought. These deals you made - you just traded 'expansion draft considerations,' right?" "Yes, we'll select the player that they want us to." "But what if you don't? What if you just take whoever you want? Would it be against the rules?" "I... well...no. Technically we could do that. But it would be dishonest and would make everyone furious at us." "So? I didn’t buy an NHL team to make friends. I bought an NHL team to win a Stanley Cup, and also to let people know that I went to West Point. Did you know I went to West Point?” “Yes Bill” “I trust you George. Now go out there and get me a championship.”
Part II
Tensions are high in the green room on June 21st. General managers are walking in and out to greet and chit-chat with George McPhee and Bill Foley, the newest members of their exclusive fraternity of NHL executives. They laugh and exchange stories: Joe Sakic tells them about the gas leak in the Pepsi Centre that they noticed as soon as the season was over; Peter Chiarelli asks them to give him a call if they draft a right handed defensive defenceman (because that Draisaitl kid isn't really working out); John Chayka asks them if they're hiring. McPhee is having a hard time keeping things light and friendly, knowing that he's about to betray all of these men. Just submitting an offer sheet is enough to get you kicked out of the GM Secret Santa, let alone dishonesty at this level. Gary Bettman walks into the green room excitedly. “Bill, George, I am so excited for us to get going. Everyone in this building is so energized, I even just saw Evgeny Kuznetsov doing some smelling salts in the bathroom!" ~ The Las Vegas Hard Rock Hotel and Casino is packed with new Vegas Golden Knights fans. The award show itself is highlighted by the best NHL.com intern-written jokes that unpaid can buy. Host Joe Manganiello is dutifully following the Jack Johnson model on stage: he might be bombing out there but boy is he eating up minutes. After Brent Burns finishes his Norris trophy victory speech, and the PA quickly wipes the crumbs and beard hair off the microphone, the time has come for Vegas’ first picks. "From the Anaheim Ducks, Vegas picks…” McPhee looks out at the smiling faces in the crowd. He sees Bob Murray, sitting with his plus-one for the evening (Randy Carlyle). He sees Jim Rutherford trying to turn his blaring ringtone off with his screen brightness turned up all the way. He sees Lou Lamoriello, sitting with a slightly less murderous look in his eyes than usual. He knows that the friendships he has fostered with all of these extremely normal and competent people will never recover from what he is about to do. He takes a deep breath. “Josh Manson!" The Vegas fans go wild. The attached trade is announced too: they have picked up Shea Theodore in exchange for “draft considerations.” The general managers’ faces contort with fury as it dawns on them what has happened. Things only get worse as McPhee and Foley continue to announce their picks. Instead of taking Erik Haula from the Wild, they take Matt Dumba. And they still get Alex Tuch. Instead of taking Mikhail Grabovski from the Isles, they take Brock Nelson. And they still get a 1st and a 2nd. Instead of taking Jason Garrison from the Lightning, they take Yanni Gourde. And they still get Nikita Gusev. ~ After the show, twenty-nine general managers storm the green room with murder in their eyes. Bettman tries to deflate the situation. “Good evening gentlemen. I understand you’re upset, bu- Wait, where’s Jim Benning?” “He got stuck in the revolving door somehow. But we have him on speakerphone.” Benning's voice bellows out of Pierre Dorian's team-issued Motorola Razr. “That was an embarrassment! A mockery! An insult to everything that hockey is supposed to be! Who even wrote those 'jokes' anyway?! And by the way, the expansion draft was bullshit too!” Bob Murray’s face is an angrier shade of red than usual. “George you scumbag, we had a fucking deal! We only traded you Shea Theodore so that you would take Clayton Stoner!” McPhee says “Well actually, Bob, the trade was made for “draft considerations.” And I promise you we really considered taking Stoner.” The room erupts in anger again. Garth Snow is irate as well: "You bastard, how could you take Nelson?! Resigning Tavares would've been a sure thing if you had taken Grabovski instead! I can't imagine how this franchise's cap situation could possibly be any worse!" Lou Lamoriello smirks. Bettman sighs and tries to be diplomatic. “Gentlemen, I’m sorry, but he’s right. It says in the transcripts of the official trade calls that the trades were made purely for ‘considerations’, not for the selection of specific players. There’s nothing we can do about that. That being said, George, per the NHL’s licensing agreement with EA Sports we will need to confiscate a few of your phones.” The managers walk out of the room grumbling. On the way out, a confused Dale Tallon says “There's one thing I don't understand: If George went back on all those other deals, why didn’t he take Alex Petrovic from us instead of that Marchessault guy? And he still took that cap dump Reilly Smith from us too! What an idiot.” ~ The Knights’ players were already fired up by their respective teams’ willingness to let them go – now they’re extra motivated by everyone else in the league hating their guts.
Jonathan Marchessault – William Karlsson – Reilly Smith David Perron – Brock Nelson – Yanni Gourde Tomas Nosek – Vadim Shipachyov – James Neal Ryan Carpenter – Pierre-Edouard Bellemare – Alex Tuch William Carrier Brayden McNabb – Matt Dumba Nate Schmidt – Josh Manson Shea Theodore – Colin Miller Jack Johnson Marc-Andre Fleury Antti Raanta
They claim the President's Trophy and the Stanley Cup in each of their first three seasons. The league's general managers conspire to exact revenge on these scoundrels, and all agree that Marc Bergevin should offersheet their best young players, a plan that immediately backfires when Bergevin inadvertently saves Vegas considerable negotiating time and helps them lock up their core at reasonable numbers. The Knights later find a loophole in the salary cap that allows them to add high-salary free agents seemingly at will. After they sweep through the bubble playoffs in 2020, it becomes clear that no other team can compete with them, and TV ratings hit a dismal low. Amid financial uncertainty caused by COVID-19, the National Hockey League officially folds in late 2020. Agent Allan Walsh, desperately trying to secure spots in the KHL for his stunned clients, soberly sums up the feelings of the hockey world: https://preview.redd.it/q9p41mrmnzv51.png?width=560&format=png&auto=webp&s=5db5d08168a2c897b4f57e8473f73612f191398c (Thank you for reading, it's been awhile!)
The Story of Joe Rogan and the Stern Show: “…my problem with Howard's version of the story is that it's complete horseshit"
Hello, Hello. Here's an original rundown of the events leading to Joe Rogan's eventual departure from the Stern Show. If you've enjoyed this, check out my previous behind the scene write ups on the bottom. Thanks. Howard is kicking off promotion for his latest book Howard Stern: Comes Again. He gives a rare candid interview with David Marchese of the New York Times. David asks Howard about his thoughts on podcasts before turning his attention to Joe Rogan. “Is there an issue between you guys?” he asks. “Yeah, there is,” Stern replies. “I was a fan of Joe’s comedy. He does a great routine about working out with weights with his buddy in the basement, and before you know it, they’re having full-on gay sex.” In typical Stern fashion, he would go on to take credit for Rogan’s success. “So I was a big proponent of his before he was a host on TV, before he got into M.M.A. fighting or whatever. I used to have him on the show...” Stern said. It’s the year 2000. Joe Rogan had just capped off a five year stint on NewsRadio, a NBC prime time comedy. It would feature the likes of Phil Hartman, who was tragically murdered by his wife in between production of the forth and fifth season. He had also been the backstage and post-fight interviewer for the UFC, a position he’d held for 2 years before quitting. Rogan’s comedy caught the eye of Warner Bros Records, who signed him to a three album deal. Joe would go on to release “I'm Gonna Be Dead Some Day...” on CD and cassette that year. It would gain a cult following thanks to the emergence of peer to peer file sharing in the form of Napster. The album would get frequent airtime on The Howard Stern Show, where the opening track “Getting Pumped” became a favorite of Howard and the gang. Rogan would make his first appearance on the show September 18, 2000 and talked about the sketch. “My buddy, Bryan Callen, who I did the sketch with… he and I are always doing that, we’re always playing around like that...” It wasn’t long before Howard dug up memories of Joe’s childhood. More specifically, his experience with a pedophile at the age of 12. [AUDIO] “He’s like ‘You know, I just want to tell you that I love ya. You’re a great guy… Yeah, but you know, without sex there could be no real love...’ and I went, what? I just panicked.” He also opened up about his biological father, Joe Rogan Sr. “I haven’t spoken to him since I was seven years old.” His father would attempt to contact him once he started gaining some fame. “He’s tried to do it through his mother and once through his sister… Yeah, when I got on TV. He saw my name somewhere...” The topic then turned to the murder-suicide of fellow costar Phil Hartman. [AUDIO] “How’d you find out?” Howard asked. “I went out on a date with a girl from Hard Copy. It was a bad date. I never went out with her again. She calls me like three weeks later at like 8:30 in the morning and wakes me up. I’m like ‘What are you waking me up for?’’ She would be one to break the news to Joe. “She’s like ‘You didn’t hear?… I don’t want to be the one to tell you… Phil’s dead’. Immediately after, she’s like ‘What’s going to happen to the show?’” Joe would continue. “It gets worse. I’m in shock. I’m in a coma. I’m turning on the TV. You know, I can’t believe this. Then she goes ‘Joe, we need to get a sound byte from you.’… So I hang up the phone. I’m like ‘I got to go.’ So then the phone starts ringing, everybody’s calling, everybody heard the news, all my friends… Twenty minutes later, she calls again. ‘Joe, um, how are you? OK?’ I’m like ‘I don’t know.’ She goes ‘Listen, we need to get your address.’ I go ‘Why?’, she goes ‘We’re sending a camera crew over. We have to interview you.’” There was also talk about an incident with another costar, Andy Dick, on the set. [AUDIO] Rogan was in his trailer along with his girlfriend when Andy came knocking. “I was getting dressed and Andy starts pounding on the door. He’s like, ‘What are you doing? What are you doing in there? Are you having sex?’ I’m like, ‘No. Dude, I'm getting dressed. Get out of here’. He’s like ‘Just open up the door. I have to tell you something.’ So I open up the door and Andy’s standing there with his unit in his hand, with his pants half down and wacking it.” Joe was a hit. He would become a regular from that day on, even sitting in during the show. He also returned to the UFC after an ownership change, where he was promoted to color commentator. More importantly, he became host of the hottest summer show of 2001, Fear Factor. This lead to legendary on air battles with Vinnie Favale, self appointed CBS spokesperson. Vinnie was actually Vice President of CBS Late Night Programming, East Coast, but couldn’t resist any opportunity to defend the network in any capacity. The two would argue repeatedly over the success of Joe’s hit show, which happened to be on a competing network. Usually, in complete denial, Vinnie would try to spin any dispute in CBS’ favor. The host of Fear Factor laid into him during an argument in the summer of ‘01. [AUDIO] “You’re a company man. This is sad. You’re the kind of guy that gets fired from his job and blows his brains out because you believe that everything revolves around your company. You are sucked in. ‘We’re going to kick your asses.’ It's not even you! You’re not even doing anything. You have nothing to do with Survivor. You have nothing to do with the programming. You have nothing to do with the success of it” he said. Their clashes would be a staple of Best Of in the early 2000’s. However, the relationship between Joe and the show would come to an end in 2004. Stern would go on during that 2019 New York Times Interview. “Joe was a guest one time and I said something to him off the air, which I won’t go into, but he took offense. I haven’t heard or seen him since. I think he made the decision that I was toxic for him. But I hold no grudge.” On the May 4, 2009 show, the Stern Show would discuss the controversy in some detail. [AUDIO] Howard kicks off the conversation with some tape he has from the previous night. “… So I told you Joe had some problem with me, so he discussed it with Greg Fitzsimmons.” “He wont discuss it with us?” Robin asks. “No, and you know, I remember the exact incident and everything and I knew this is what it was,” Howard says. Joe would explain his version of events on Fitzsimmons show. “Well, I kind of explained it the last time I was here but, I just try to avoid drama, you know? He said something about me on the air that I didn’t like… He said I hate women and I was like, come on man, really? He said something about us being in a strip club, where we were all in a strip club, and he said, you know… He had did a thing in Vegas and he had hired out a whole section of this strip club. It was pretty bad ass... I remember I was really high and when I’m really high, I can’t get lap dances. It just weirds me out. It’s just too freaky. You can feel this person really doesn’t want to do this, this is their job, then you start thinking about their past. So anyway, he starts saying that I said to them ‘Get away, whores’, which I’d never say. It’s just not true… For me, first of all, it’s like I'm going to have to defend that and whenever you’re defending something like that, it always automatically looks like you’re being defensive because it’s bullshit.” Joe continued, making sure to be clear there were no hard feelings. “I don’t want to even be involved and I just said, I'll just be a fan again… and I listen all the time.” Howard would shoot back. “I’ll tell you the whole story and Joe’s right. It’s better that Joe doesn’t come on again because he’s building this thing up. You know, first of all, I’m somebody who has guests on and I try to make them comfortable when they’re on the show and I try to be a good interviewer and I also try to, you know, create something. We were in Vegas. Joe showed up to a strip club. It wasn’t my event. I was at a strip club. They had invited us over, am I correct? We were there. I think one of our guys was making an appearance there... “… Maybe Joe was high or something. He was saying shit about some of the strippers and I said to him on the air that it seems like you’re angry with women. You know, you were just kind of pissed off. He was hateful, you know. You can make the same statements about me about what I do for a living… “… He was saying stuff to me about the women… He seemed angry and I said to him sometimes it seems like you’re angry with women. What was going on that night? I don’t think he wanted that out there or as he says he didn’t say it or maybe I misheard it…” Gary would jump into the studio and add his own version of events. “I always thought it was about something I talked about on the radio. Maybe it is something different. I remember we went out one night… We walked into the strip club and Joe goes ‘These girls are all fucking, you know, God, they’re all fucking damaged. I fucking hate these chicks. I’m not even going to get a lap dance,’” Gary said. Howard would continue and even for a moment, he would second guess himself. “I didn’t mean it as a whole intellectual… I thought Joe would say ‘Hey, Howard. Come on, man. I was tired...’ or you know we’d have some interesting conversation about it but Joe took it really personally and I understand that he did. Now in retrospect, maybe I’m looking at it and going...” but Gary wouldn’t let his boss show weakness. “I don’t know Howard. I think he’s overreacting.” Gary would continue, “We did a lot of good things for him. We had him on the show. You know, we helped him out a lot in a lot of ways. I think at one point I had a discussion with his manager and he’s like ‘You know, if Howard was a friend he would never had said it’ and I said ‘Well, if Joe was a friend, he would have asked about it and discussed it instead of just never talking about it.’” Howard would end the segment questioning Rogan’s version of events with his own evidence. “According to our show log, it shows that Gary was the one who said Joe called the girls whores. I had also heard Joe saying some stuff and I said to Joe ‘Joe, sometimes it seems like you were angry that night with women’ and I wanted him to talk about it on the air but I guess it was a road he didn’t want to go down.” The day in question is February 7, 2002. The Stern Show is broadcasting from the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas on delay. Joe Rogan was the first guest on their opening day. Howard got into a discussion about the previous night. [AUDIO]
Howard: … then we went over to Club Paradise, the strip club. Then I figured I'd just walk in there and not know anyone. Everyone was there from the show. Artie: Well I had a big appearance there. Howard: Yeah, Artie had an appearance there and Stuttering John has one there tonight, but Joe Rogan, you try to act like you’re above the strip club. Joe Rogan: No. What are you talking about? How am I trying to act like I'm above it? Howard: You’re always like, ‘Ah, these girls [mumbles incoherently]’ Joe Rogan: What? They’re hot. What are you talking about? Howard: Yeah. Joe Rogan: No such thing. Howard: Alright, I thought… then I just see you sitting there. Joe Rogan: What are you talking about? You’re making this up. Gary: Joe uses the word whore about 20 times an hour. Howard: Yeah, he says ‘these whores’, this, that, and the other. Joe Rogan: I don’t say it like that. I don’t say it that way. I say it in an affectionate way. Howard: I think you’re angry with women. Robin: Well, he does that whole routine about the girls who are angry because he’s using a dollar to get them to take off their clothes. Howard: That is a good routine… Stuttering John: …When we were at the pool Howard, you know, Joe looks at me and he goes ‘Look, these are lower shelf hookers here tonight’. Joe Rogan: That was the first crew. Howard: They were lovely ladies. Joe Rogan: Oh, stop Howard. That first crew was rough. Mr. Miyagi with the fake boobs. Howard: You think because a girl takes her clothes off and dances that she’s a whore? Joe Rogan: No, not all of them. Stuttering John: Bottom shelf whores is what he said. That’s what it was. Joe Rogan: The first crew… Club Paradise Stripper: Look at you, you Fear Factor guy. You’re just paranoid with women. Joe Rogan: You’re hot. You girls are hot. I’m not talking about you. Club Paradise Stripper: Look at you. You were so mean yesterday. You were mean. Joe Rogan: Mean to who? How was I mean? To you?
The moment ended up being rather uneventful. In fact, this wouldn’t be Joe’s last appearance on the show. He would stop by the studio several more times, most notably on September 22, 2003. Joe is in the studio to promote Fear Factor, The Man Show, and UFC. In what may or may not be a coincidence, there is a woman in the green room waiting to play Stump the Booey who just so happens to have slept with Joe Rogan. Gary would burst into he studio while Joe was on the couch. “You know, there’s something really weird. We have these girls that are coming on next segment. They’re playing Stump the Booey against me. They’re twins. One of the girls heard Joe on and she’s like ‘ Oh, I have a story about Joe.’” Her name was Crystal. [AUDIO] “He was my first one night stand,” she said. Joe would vaguely remember the two hooking up many years ago. What she said next would nearly have Joe’s eyes popping out of his head. “… After that wonderful one night stand, I got pregnant,” she announced to millions of radio listeners. Joe was in a state of shock as it was the first time he was hearing the news. “How old is your son or daughter?” Howard asked. “I never kept it,” she replied. The news would send Joe into frenzy, as if Maury Povich himself had opened up an envelope with the DNA results. “Thank you, Jesus!” Rogan screamed. Howard asked Joe if he was nervous that she was going to bring the kid in. “Well, it was a little creepy right there for a moment,” he replied. Crystal would then go on to talk about her decision to have an abortion. Joe would interrupt. “I’m so nervous right now. My heart is skipping.” Howard asks “What scares you most about that? The fact that you have a kid, that you have to pay… what would scare you the most? Joe didn’t hesitate. “It’s that I would be connected to someone that I really don’t know for the rest of my life and I’d have to deal with her every time I wanted to see the kid, if I wanted to see the kid.” He then admitted it wasn’t even his first abortion predicament. “The other time was when I was 23. It was a girl I was dating” Fast forwarding to 2004, we find what might have been Joe’s last straw with the show. While previously citing show logs during that 2009 discussion, Howard would make the claim he never made the “Get away, whores” comment. Instead, he would place the blame on Gary. However, a discussion that took place on September 22, 2004 would prove that statement to be false. Comedienne Bonnie McFarlane had stopped by the show and sat in for the news. She was once a writer for The Man Show when it was hosted by Rogan and Doug Stanhope. [AUDIO] While discussing Rogan, Howard would go on to say, “Joe hates women… Joe’s weird. I’ve gone to strip clubs with him and he’s like ‘get away from me, whore.’” Robin would continue the onslaught. “… Even when we were in Vegas together and there were stripper dancers, he was yelling all kinds of horrible things. I was like ‘these women aren’t doing anything to you. Why are you screaming at them?’” They would continue with allegations of Joe yelling at the Juggies, a nickname given to the Man Show dancers. Bonnie would go on to say Joe was the biggest supporter of the Juggies, often yelling at the director for his treatment of the females. However, he would usually follow that up with yelling of his own. Around 2007, a topic on the incident would appear on the mma.tv message boards. Rogan himself would reply to the allegations. It would be the most detailed version of events during this whole controversy. “… my problem with Howard's version of the story is that it's complete horseshit. I never said ‘get away whores’ to anyone. We were at a party that they were throwing for the show, and there were a lot of pretty strippers, but there were also a lot of unattractive, aggressive ones that were trying to get guys to buy lapdances. Howard, and some of the other guys were getting them, and I didn't want one. The girls were pushy, and all I kept saying is ‘no thanks.’ Somehow, that got turned into ‘get away, whores’ when he got on the radio. “Howard likes drama, real or created. It makes for good radio. That's all well and good, but I choose not to be put on the defensive for something that I never did. Also, I've got a real pet peeve with the whole ‘you hate women’ tag. It's a weak line that people will throw around to try to define someone, often if they don't like or have a problem with dumb or obnoxious chicks. If you have a problem with dumb dudes, no one ever says that ‘you hate men,’ but you get in one argument with a pushy cunt and that's the cop out they'll always try to use. It's like a lazy black guy that gets reprimanded at work for doing a shitty job, and he cries that the reason he's getting in trouble is because the boss doesn't like black people. “When you've got a guy that you respect and admire, and you've done his show a bunch of times you think that you're friends. Then, when that guy turns on you and talks shit about you, especially shit that's not true, it's a gross feeling. I'm a loyal friend, and that shit means a lot to me. “If I had a friend outside of show business and he gave a distorted account of me like that, I would stop hanging around with him, and I wouldn't trust him anymore. I treat my friends in show business the same way I treat my friends in real life. “As for Howard, I have no ill feelings. I was always a huge fan of the show, and it was an honor to be on it. When I decided to avoid doing the show after this, I started doing Opie and Anthony, and I really enjoyed their show. Jim Norton is a buddy of mine from way back when we both were starting out as stand ups, and I really fucking love being on that show. Plus, I think Norton is the funniest guy on radio. I'll probably do Stern again sometime, I just thought that whole situation was really weak, and I didn't want to be a part of it... “I still listen to Stern all the time, and I think it's a great show. I've always considered him to be the Johnny Carson of my era. In past eras it was HUGE to get on the tonight show with Johnny and have him ask you to sit on the couch. In my generation, it's Stern. He's the King for a reason. No hate, I just don't feel like being a part of the kind of shit I described….” Joe would copy and paste his response on the Official Joe Rogan Forum along with a small update: “ In reading the post back after flying across the Atlantic Ocean (on my way to UFC in Belfast) I had time to think about it, and I think there definitely could be a very convincing argument that I had sand in my vagina when I made it, but I did make it, so i left it up. “I'm certainly not trying to get in some sort of a battle with a guy that's helped me out, and a guy that I respect very much….” Joe Rogan would go on to be very complimentary of Stern in the following years. Even when Howard would go on to attack close friend Ari Shaffir about the legitimacy of podcasts, Rogan would continue to show his appreciation for the self appointed King of All Media. Vinny Favale would continue to take shots at Rogan after his show absence. In a conversation that would take place on March 9, 2005, Gary would question Vinny’s expertise on everything network TV. “I was watching Fear Factor in syndication yesterday on UPN and you told Joe Rogan that show was done, it had a few months left, and it was over”. Vinny, notorious for being the ultimate company man responded, “That show is not a hit though… Where is Joe Rogan? You don’t see him anywhere”. Rogan would go on to be on of the most listened to voices in the world with the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. Vinny Favale would later be pushed out of CBS after allegations of misconduct, which included talking to fellow employees about his erections. New Late Show host Stephen Colbert would distance himself from the creator of the infamous Debbie tapes. “He [Favale] basically came with the building when I got this show...”
If you've enjoyed this, I've also written other original behind the scene rundowns of moments in show history:
Going through old issues of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter and posting highlights in my own words. For anyone interested, I highly recommend signing up for the actual site at f4wonline and checking out the full archives. PREVIOUS YEARS ARCHIVE: 1991 • 1992 • 1993 • 1994 • 1995 • 1996 • 1997 • 1998 • 1999 • 2000
PROGRAMMING NOTE: There will be no Observer Rewind on Friday, because I expect to be recovering from a July 4th, 'Merica-induced hangover. Presuming I still have fingers left, we'll pick back up Monday.
The Invasion PPV is in the books and appears to have been a major success. As a show, it was nothing special. One great match, a good main event, and everything else was the usual decent, average, bad, forgettable undercard. Early signs are that this show probably did big numbers on PPV (yeah, that's putting it mildly). It ended with Austin turning heel again, after seemingly turning babyface just a week or two ago, and defecting to the WCW/ECW side. Dave talks about how Austin's brief face-turn seemed to reignite business. Raw ratings were the highest they'd been in 3 months, ticket sales for Invasion saw a major boost following the Raw angle with him, etc. Austin's heel turn at Wrestlemania led to an almost instant downturn in TV ratings and attendance so Dave seems kinda befuddled why they decided to do it again at Invasion, considering last week's babyface turn showed instant signs of improving business. Austin also worked the PPV with 3 broken bones in his back and 2 broken bones in his hand (suffered at King of the Ring). He has breaks in the L-2, L-3, and L-4 vertebraes in his back, but he gutted out the match anyway. Chris Jericho worked the show with a hyper-extended elbow and Kurt Angle has whiplash and a black eye.
They were literally still constructing the stage during the show. During the Heat pre-show match, you could see crew members sawing plywood and hammering stuff to form the left side of the "V" ramp. Chavo Guerrero had to come down the "WWF" side of the ramp because the WCW/ECW side wasn't finished yet. WWF usually books an arena 2 days in advance to do all the setup necessary, but a WNBA game was booked the night before and it went long (due to an N'Sync album release party after the game) and the WWF crew wasn't able to get into the arena and start constructing stuff until the morning of the show.
Other notes from the PPV: Rob Van Dam and Jeff Hardy stole the show, with RVD winning the hardcore title from Jeff. Dave gives it 4 stars. Speaking of titles, if they aren't going to run 2 separate companies, they desperately need to get rid of some of the belts because with all the WCW titles, it has practically doubled the number of champions. X-Pac was booed even though he was a WWF guy and they're supposed to be the babyfaces. And of course, it ended with the Austin turn with him joining the Alliance.
WWF has reached a temporary agreement with the bankruptcy court to be allowed to use the "ECW" name through the end of July. The trustee argued that the ECW intellectual property is owned by the ECW estate they are managing and WWF had been using it without authorization and the court had received complaints from several creditors that ECW owes money too. A couple weeks ago, WWF offered the court $150,000 to buy the ECW trademarks and tape library and were turned down. WWF upped its offer this week to $250,000. In response, the trustee agreed to allow WWF to use the name for now while they figure this out. WWF appears to be the only party interested in purchasing the ECW name and library so it's likely they will make a deal. There's a lot more to this but it's all boring legalese about trademark law and shit like that. Besides, we have a follow up story on this later in this issue....
Last week, Dave had a pretty big obituary for Terry Gordy, but he mentioned that he wasn't able to write a full one by press time. And this week, whew. He's got an exhaustively long obit. But he has more news on it. Gordy died of a heart attack caused by a blood clot in his home. He lived his Freebird gimmick and was a wild partier during his younger days and would get wildly out of control. Dave has stories in here from Michael Hayes and Ted Dibiase about some of Gordy's wild ways. He also tells a story of the Freebirds pissing on somebody and then adds "literally, as the Freebirds in that era were known for giving people they liked--and sometimes didn't like as well--golden showers." Like it was some sort of initiation thing I guess. Well okay then. He also recaps a story about the Freebirds debuting in Memphis and in their very first match on live TV, Michael Hayes shit his pants and had to go backstage during the commercial break to change. There's actually a lot of really funny stories in this obit. But of course, the partying got to be too much and shortly after winning the Triple Crown title in AJPW, Gordy collapsed at a Roppongi night club in Japan from an overdose and his heart stopped beating. He was revived and survived but Giant Baba stripped him of the title and nearly fired him. He managed to keep his job but Baba never fully trusted him again and never again pushed him to the top of the company. In 1993, at the absolute peak of his career (he was making $10,000 a week in Japan and $200,000 a year from WCW), he overdosed again on a flight to Japan and once again fell into a coma. Again, his heart stopped and he had to be revived with CPR. He spent 5 days in a coma and suffered severe brain damage. When he awoke, he was never the same. He had to relearn how to talk, how to walk, and eventually, how to wrestle. He tried to make a comeback, working small indies here and there and even brief runs in ECW and WWF, but the overdose had destroyed his in-ring ability. Despite his success and all the money he made in his career, Gordy died with very little money in the bank and no life insurance. They played "Freebird" at his funeral. Michael Hayes is coming out of retirement next month to take Gordy's place at an indie show that he was booked for before he died. Just 6 days before he passed, Gordy was backstage at the Smackdown tapings and was said to be mentally more clearheaded than anyone had seen him in years and seemed mostly like his old self.
NJPW had their latest Sapporo Dome show and Dave is perplexed by the booking of this company. The show was booked around the idea of NJPW wrestlers facing a bunch of outside wrestlers and MMA fighters, and the NJPW side lost almost all of the matches. Yuji Nagata lost to PRIDE champion Mark Coleman. Former RINGS fighter Masayuki Naruse won the IWGP Jr. title from Minoru Tanaka. Another PRIDE fighrer, Gary Goodridge, beat Manabu Nakanishi, and so on and so forth. The whole thing just made NJPW look weak and this has been going on for months now, with the NJPW guys never getting their wins back and MMA stars basically running roughshod over the company (yeah, we've reached peak Inokism now. This shit damn near killed the company in the early 2000s).
The trustee in the ECW bankruptcy case has hired lawyers to facilitate the sale of the ECW estate to the WWF. Right now, the lawyers have to untangle some stuff, particularly the fact that video game company Acclaim is still making a stink about the fact that they own 15% of ECW and that they should have the rights to it all since Heyman has folded it. But long story short, the lawyers are pretty much just trying to untangle all the legal red tape so that WWF can swoop in and buy it up when they're finished. Heyman's team is still gathering all the records they can and Heyman has to appear before the trustee next week. Heyman himself filed for personal bankruptcy last week, which most people expected. Heyman claimed to have around $2.8 million in personal debt from the filing and is owed $128,000 in back pay for himself (turns out the wrestlers weren't the only ones not getting paid. He wasn't paying himself either). In his filing, Heyman listed the WWF as his current employer, as a television writer, at a salary of $4,000 per month.
NOAH star Kenta Kobayashi has returned from his recent injury and they finally gave him a new name! Since his real name is so similar to one of Japan's biggest stars, he is now going by simply KENTA (and in 6 days, he's going to start kicking heads off in the 2019 G-1).
Bam Bam Bigelow will return to NJPW for the first time since 1992 to work the next tour. He'll be part of the G-1 World tournament, which is basically like the G-1 Climax, but for foreign wrestlers (I can't find any actual details on this tournament so I had to research it by looking up show results. Turns out Bigelow isn't in it after all. Don Frye ends up winning the whole tournament. Scott Norton, Scott Hall, Super J, Giant Silva, and others were also in it).
The elections for the Japanese Diet (their version of Congress basically) will be taking place this week and if you recall, Atsushi Onita is running. Polls indicate that Onita is likely to win, due to his name recognition and certainly not because of his political acumen. Satoru Sayama (the original Tiger Mask) is also running for office but he doesn't have the same mainstream name value and his chances aren't looking as good. But for what it's worth, Sayama has been traveling around his district, with the Tiger Mask on, campaigning for votes. Dave says it's hard enough to trust politicians when you can see their face but he'd never trust one wearing a mask. After all, a vote for La Parka could end up being a vote for DDP!
There's a shoot-fighting show happening in Japan soon, and it's notable because Dos Caras Jr. will be fighting a guy named Kengo Watanabe. Caras Jr. was a top tier amateur wrestler in Mexico and hoped to compete in the 2000 Olympics but it didn't happen. Dave doesn't know if he'll be wearing the mask or not, but if he does, he'll be the first person Dave knows off to compete in an MMA fight while wearing a mask (that would be Alberto Del Rio, and yes he wears the mask. Spoiler: Del Rio wins this fight when Kengo suffers a GNARLY broken arm less than a minute in. They have a rematch in 2002 and Kengo chokes him out to avenge the loss).
Remember the Atlanta Gold Club strip club that is on trial for a bunch of racketeering charges and alleged connections to the mob? Well, a former dancer named Jana Pelnis testified this week that she performed sexual favors for Eric Bischoff's wife after the couple came to the club and took her to a nearby hotel. Pelnis testified that Bischoff's wife slipped her $200 before they got to the hotel and that the club owner gave her another $800 when she returned. Pelnis also admitted to performing sexual favors for other athletes, such as NBA players Patrick Ewing and Dikembe Mutombo. Eric Bischoff was called to testify the next day and he admitted the story, but also claimed to have been very drunk and said the night in question was a blur. Bischoff said he didn't recall having intercourse with Pelis and said he only recalled his wife and the dancer performing sexual acts on each other while he watched. Bischoff claimed it was a spontaneous thing, not prostitution, and that he later gave her another $100 after dropping her off because he wasn't sure if she had been tipped for lap dances she had done earlier that night at the club. Oh Eric, you scoundrel.
We have another case of a child being killed while doing wrestling moves. A 9-year-old boy in NC died after he suffered a broken neck when his 16-year-old mentally handicapped step-brother tried to perform some kind of wrestling move on him. The case immediately got national headlines and was compared to the Lionel Tate case that has been central to the WWF's lawsuit against the PTC. On MSNBC this week, they had a segment debating wrestling's influence on children and WWF Corporate Relations VP Gary Davis appeared on the show to defend wrestling and talked about how kids always imitate what they see on TV, argues that it's the parents' responsibility to monitor what their kids do, etc. Just the usual stuff.
Hulk Hogan says his plans to start a new promotion are on hold for now, saying the major TV networks aren't interested in wrestling right now. Some of the names that have been attached to Hogan's idea were Jimmy Hart, Sting, Bret Hart, Roddy Piper, Kevin Sullivan, Sable, and Chyna. Some of them aren't legally able to do anything until their WCW deals expire and others (like Bret Hart), Dave doesn't believe for a second were even considering it. But either way, not happening for now.
Sandman went on a radio show and said he's going to be starting full-time with a new promotion in Evansville, IN. He said the promotion will also have Curt Hennig, Sabu, Public Enemy, and a whole bunch of other former ECW stars. They already have their first show scheduled for the ECW Arena in Philadelphia and a few cities in between (that would be a company called Main Event Championship Wrestling. That first show had all the big ECW names on it, plus Buff Bagwell, Chris Harris, Mike Rotunda, and more. And far as I can tell, they never ran another show after that).
At another indie show this week, a bunch of ICP fans were heckling all the wrestlers. Steve Corino worked the main event and got into a confrontation with one of the fans and it got physical. Corino ended up having to be pulled off the fan by a bunch of other wrestlers. Corino out here beating up juggalos, you hate to see it. (Here's an article I found on Deadspin where someone who was there writes in and tells the story of what happened).
The state of Nevada unanimously agreed to sanction MMA as a sport and confirmed that UFC 33 will take place at the Mandalay Bay Casino (fun fact: this show sucked and to this day, Dana White still calls UFC 33 the worst show they've ever done). Anyway, now that UFC PPVs are available on cable providers again, UFC is likely going to be the closest thing to competition WWF will have anytime soon. Dana White played down the idea of competing with pro wrestling, saying they compete with boxing. But he said if UFC gets a TV deal, he believes they could give WWF a run for their money.
On Sunday Night Heat this week, Bob Holly pinned Mike Awesome clean. Dave thinks that's a pretty dumb decision and that none of the Alliance guys should be losing yet, especially to undercard guys, but apparently some WWF wrestlers (Undertaker specifically) that have worked with Awesome haven't been impressed with him as a worker and, well, here's the result.
Dave finally read The Star tabloid interview with Chyna, where she talked about her reasons for leaving WWF and the Triple H/Stephanie affair. In regards to the affair, she said she was suspicious that Triple H (her boyfriend at the time) was cheating on her with Stephanie and said they admitted it when she confronted them. Chyna said she was heartbroken and had hoped to marry Triple H some day. But despite all that, she says it was unrelated to her leaving WWF, saying she left because they couldn't agree on money terms in her recent contract negotiations.
Chyna did another interview on a Boston radio station and said she was scared and excited to try her luck in the entertainment world without being "Chyna." She also said she was surprised when WWF pulled out of their contract negotiations. She blamed the death of WCW and Vince having a monopoly as the reason she didn't get the money she was looking for. Dave says Chyna was asking to no longer work house shows so she could be off during the weeks to pursue acting roles, while still making top star WWF money, and they weren't going for that. Plus, ya know, the other stuff....
Chris Benoit will be using the song "Whatever" by Canadian rock band Our Lady Peace as his entrance music whenever he eventually returns.
Kane filmed a Chef Boyardee commercial last week, along with the one the Dudleyz filmed. (I can't find the Dudleyz commercial, but here's the Kane one).
Jim Ross did a conference call or something recently and talked about a lot of things. He said ECW didn't have the same number of fans WCW had, but said that WCW had eroded its fanbase so much by the end and said the ECW fans were much more vocal and passionate about the product. Said that Sting is 42-years-old and wants to stay home with his family and said he likely wouldn't be coming to WWF. Admitted that they were interested in bringing in Ric Flair and Goldberg, but it doesn't make economic sense for either side right now, since they still have those WCW contracts. Said a lot of the undercard WCW wrestlers they have under contract will be sent to the developmental companies like OVW or HWA so they don't get rusty and can improve some more. Said the long term goal is still for WWF and WCW to run as 2 separate companies, each with their own prime time weekly show, but there's no word on when that will happen. Said they haven't given any thought about what to do with the women's title now that Chyna is gone from the company and she was the champ, but Ross assumed they'll probably do a tournament for it eventually. Said he expects Jerry Lawler to return sooner or later, but he's dealing with some personal issues right now (yeah, Stacy had just left him at this point). Ross admitted that the locker room situation has been tense and uncomfortable lately, with the WCW guys trying to acclimate to the WWF way of doing things but said that aside from all the Buff Bagwell drama, there's been no serious issues.
Speaking of locker room tensions, there's a lot of concern about job security among all the lower and midcard guys. With so much new talent lately and no other place in the U.S. to make a real living as a wrestler, a lot of guys are worried about not being used. If you're off TV, it's "out of sight, out of mind" and so a lot of wrestlers are hiding serious injuries so they don't get taken off TV and forgotten about. Also, because of the pressure to look good and stand out from the pack, sources tell Dave steroid use is making a big comeback lately.
In a WWF.com column, Jim Ross wrote some veiled comments about people in the company leaking information to the internet and how those sources have hidden agendas and are liars and blah blah. (*laughs in Meltzer*) Dave says this is in reference to recent internet reports that WWF is planning to release a bunch of wrestlers soon. Dave says the stories aren't entirely true, but they're not entirely false either, as there are a lot of names who are on the chopping block right now due to the fact that there's just too many guys and not enough spots, so he expects to see some people gone soon. Dave also says there's major heat on some people in the office right now for these stories leaking out, but no names mentioned.
Triple H has been backstage at the TV tapings for the last few weeks, helping with the booking of the shows. He was told by doctors that all this extra travel was putting him behind schedule on his rehab time and to stop flying out to every TV taping if he wants to make a full recovery. Triple H has decided to listen to the doctors and won't be going to the shows as much.
There was some minor heat on RVD at the Invasion PPV because his airbrushed tights had a skull on it, and that's Austin's gimmick. Goddamn, this petty high school nonsense, I swear......anyway, there was a mixed reaction to RVD's match backstage. Obviously, RVD and Jeff Hardy stole the show and a lot of people loved it, but others criticized it, saying it was only good because RVD had the "right" opponent and wouldn't be able to have that kind of match with anyone else.
The storyline on TV last week with Kurt Angle hugging Vince was an inside joke on DDP. Apparently, when DDP first signed his WWF deal, Vince went to shake his hand and DDP grabbed him and hugged him instead, like they were longtime friends. Apparently they found it funny and decided to parody it with Angle on TV.
WEDNESDAY:WWF financial details revealed, more on WCW purchase price, Vince Russo planning to be involved in new Australian promotion, Atsushi Onita elected to government position, Acclaim wants ECW, and more...
Going through old issues of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter and posting highlights in my own words. For anyone interested, I highly recommend signing up for the actual site at f4wonline and checking out the full archives. PREVIOUS YEARS ARCHIVE: 1991 • 1992 • 1993 • 1994 • 1995 • 1996 • 1997 • 1998 • 1999
Bret Hart officially announced his retirement this week due to concussions he suffered starting back at Starrcade from a Goldberg kick. Doctors actually speculated that Hart may have had a concussion going into the match, but the kick magnified the damage. Following the Goldberg match, Hart continued to wrestle for a couple of weeks and got rocked again several times, particularly in a hardcore match with Terry Funk. Doctors said he's suffered about 10% brain damage, some of which may be permanent. Despite the injury, there was always the possibility that he could have remained an on-screen character in some role. But Hart was fired by WCW last week, which basically left him with no real options, since he has no intention of ever working for WWF again and said he doesn't want to end his career by working his way down the minor league food chain like so many other wrestlers do. Dave says Hart will be remembered for many things, and while his career had no shortage of memorable moments, the name Bret Hart will always be mostly associated with what happened in Montreal 3 years ago and with the death of his brother Owen. The first was the most historically influential match in modern times and Owen's death was the biggest mainstream news story in wrestling history. The last 3 years of Bret's life have been hell, from a disappointing WCW run, injuries, and the utter destruction of the Hart family in the wake of Owen's death. Dave thinks it's sad because if this was Japan or Mexico, the wrestling culture there is different. If a star on the level of Bret Hart retired there, they would have elaborate retirement ceremonies and make a huge deal of it. But here in America, he was double-crossed out of the WWF to avoid giving him a fond farewell, and then he was unceremoniously fired from WCW rather than having a chance to officially retire in the ring or give a speech for his fans. Then again, with the state of WCW, nobody would have believed a Bret Hart retirement speech anyway, since everyone would just suspect an angle. But it sucks that he's having to hang up the boots while unemployed and with no outlet to be given the send-off he deserves.
Dave recaps Bret's career, starting as a teenager in the Amarillo territory with Dory Funk, his time in Japan, and then starting in Stampede and working his way up the ladder there (he started as an opening match jobber). Forming the Hart Foundation with Neidhart, their years together in WWF, his singles run, becoming IC and WWF champion when business was down and Vince needed someone who wasn't exploding with steroids to be the face of the company. As WWF champion, business was weak in the U.S. but Hart was a huge draw when WWF toured internationally (which they did a lot more back then because U.S. business was so bad). And then of course, Shawn Michaels, the Screwjob, and off to WCW where he was the hottest star in the business upon arrival. But from there, he was the victim of injuries and horrible booking and Hart in WCW never clicked. Dave goes on and on about the countless times WCW dropped the ball with how they booked Bret. Anyway, Hart has ruled out ever wrestling again, for fear of more brain damage and not wanting to live the rest of his life as a drooling vegetable. He also shot down the idea of ever being a manager because he's unhappy with the direction of the business and says he's leaving the industry entirely, not just the in-ring part. He plans to spend the next year working on a book about his life and doing some acting. Luckily, he should be well off financially. He earned north of 7 figures during his last four years in the business and has a Lloyds of London disability policy that will pay him the equivalent of 6 months salary, which will be another million or so.
Bret Hart announced his retirement in his Calgary Sun column and since you can't just easily find this online anymore, here's what Bret wrote:
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. That'll be the beginning." -- Louis La'Amour. I'm really sorry to have to say that my professional wrestling career is over--forever. Although I've expected it to end for some time now, I could in no way ever prepare for it. I suppose it doesn't do much good to speak negatively about how this or that has gone for me. I feel it is more fitting right now to remember the more positive aspects of my long and great career. I have not one regret. I'm proud of all my achievements, especially my seven World Heavyweight Championships. I will miss the cities, the countries, especially the people--all colours, all religions, all ages, all languages. I've always tried my absolute best in every match, in every city, big or small, in countries all around the world. I cannot begin to explain how proud I am to have touched so many people with the ability to wrestle. My heart is filled with memories. Like when I was mobbed at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem by Palestinian children, tears in their eyes, kissing my hands. In Belfast, Ireland, being cheered on by both Catholic and Protestant fans, the emotions that poured out as I walked around the ring high-fiving our victory together. The time I was in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, where they waved Canadian flags and chanted O Canada! I could go on endlessly, but maybe it's easier to say I was privileged to be the only world champion who really travelled the world. I hope that my fans who have kept the faith, believing in me, may in some small way take some lesson from me that will help them in their lifetime. I will never forget how touched I was in Rochester, N.Y. in one of my last matches, when a bunch of die-hard fans held up a sign that read: Parking $10, Program $5, Ticket $35, watching Bret Hitman Hart wrestle--priceless." I'm forever grateful for the doors that opened bringing me to America. Thank you for having me, for giving me so much. I thank all my fans everywhere. I owe you all for everything I am. As for the wrestlers, it would mean a lot to me to always be remembered as "one of the boys." I've made great friendships that will last my lifetime and look forward to an easier life filled with reminiscing. To all of you who worked with me, carried me, and trusted me, those who allowed my success to continue while theirs did not, all from a deep sense of tradition and honour. I tried to always work hard to be champion in your eyes first. My greatest accomplishment is knowing that I never seriously harmed one wrestler. It may not seem important, but I want it remembered that in all the years I never, ever refused to lose to another wrestler--except once--and that was that fateful day in Montreal, where it's clear that I stood up for "the boys." I could begin to list all the great wrestlers I either watched or worked with, but it would take forever. I will simply say that I'd give anything to climb into the ring with so many of you just one more time. To most people, wrestling is stupid, it's fake, it doesn't mean anything. When I think about it, I'm reminded of a quote by George Braque: "Art is a sound turned to light." I drift back to a time when I was 23 years old, wrestling for my father, in Regina, making $150 a night. It looked like it was going to be a near full crowd on hand to see me take on my arch rival, The Dynamite Kid, in a ladder match. The title and a bag supposedly containing $5,000 dangled from a string above the ring. Whoever could climb the ladder and grab it first would be the winner. We were both so young when I look back on it now, so intense, when the bell rang, we tore into each other, ferociously, eventually spilling out onto the floor. I went to slam Dynamite's head into a steel chair. He, of course, had his hands up for protection, but I had no idea he would hit it so hard. His head bounced back, I tried to turn, but our heads smashed. I split the back of his head open and shattered my face, one of those rare accidents. I could tell it was bad. I could poke my finger through a gaping hole in the middle of my nose. The blood poured. We fought on. I remember Dynamite jumping up high, gripping that heavy steel ladder coming down straight down on my head. I didn't move. The crowd gasped. I dreamed a smile--because he never even touched me. He really was the best. Finally, I had him right where I wanted him, but the referee was down. That's when J.R. Foley crept up on the apron and whacked me across the back with his heavy walking stick. Down I went. The crowd was furious--so unfair. Dynamite began to climb to the top, his fingers reaching. Suddenly, I jumped up, throwing a perfect desperation drop kick, just like he asked me. "...just barely touch the ladder with your toes. I'll control how I go over." Sure enough, the ladder wobbled and tipped, he grimaced, over they both went, with amazing timing. Dynamite leapt off, straddling the top rope, bouncing up and out right on top of J.R. Foley. But the ladder hit the top rope with such force, bouncing all the way back, heading right toward me. I was lucky I saw it. I rolled and rolled as fast as I could. It crashed with a thud, missing my head by only inches. I sat up, checking to see if Dynamite was hurt. He appeared to be all right, but still both of us knew we'd be going for some stitches. He was riding with me, so he had to duck down when we drove past the fans on the way to the Pasqua Hospital. From there, we drove back home, all night, so that we could wrestle the following night, too tired to say a word to each other. But if I can stop right there...to somehow try and explain just what it is that I will miss the most about wrestling, I loved it all so much. I stood that big steel ladder up, one step up, climbing higher and higher, the crowd soaring with me, louder and louder, the blood dripping off my nose...reaching...I pulled that belt down and there it was--it happened. The crowd exploded. We blew the roof off...so loud I could not hear a single sound except the beating of my own heart. If you're lucky enough to find a way of life you live, you also have to find the courage to finally say goodbye. I'll put my guns in the ground. I can't shoot them any more.
The WWF/Owen Hart lawsuit was verbally settled out of court, pending a court approval scheduled later this week. Various sources have pegged the settlement at $18 million. It's believed Stu and Helen Hart will receive somewhere between $2-3 million, with the rest going to Martha Hart and her two young children. Martha told the Calgary Sun that the whole ordeal has been a nightmare and she can't say much more for legal reasons but that she's satisfied with the settlement. It's believed that WWF may file suit against the company that manufactured the rigging equipment, but Vince McMahon would only say that they are exploring their options on that. Martha Hart had previously vowed she would never settle before the case went to court, but those close to her say she was tired of the stress and was particularly upset that the case had torn the Hart family apart. Stu and Helen in particular were eager to settle and get it over with. The first round of settlement talks went poorly, with McMahon reportedly offering $17 million and refusing to budge, while Martha's initial asking price was said to be $32 million. It ended with Martha "cutting a promo" on Vince (oh Dave...) and talks broke off. The case was made more complicated by different Hart members' inability to stop talking to the media against lawyers' advice. At one point, Ellie Neidhart (Nattie's mom), who has sided against her parents and with WWF in the case, took a document from Stu Hart regarding all of the Hart children getting money out of the case and passed it on to WWF's lawyers, which engulfed the Hart lawyers in a storm of controversy and nearly blew up their whole case. The original Feb. 2001 court date was postponed indefinitely following that and with no new court date in sight so it was likely to continue dragging on for months and maybe even years. So ultimately, Martha decided to settle (yeah I think to this day, Martha blames Ellie for almost destroying the case and that's why she was forced to settle). As of press time, Bret Hart hasn't yet commented on the settlement, but he knew it was coming. He was on the Observer Live online show the day before it was finalized and said he understood Martha's position and would support whatever decision she made.
The downward spiral of Davey Boy Smith hit a new low this week when he was arrested on 2 separate occasions for allegedly threatening the life of his estranged wife, Diana Hart-Smith. Dave talks about Smith's worsening drug problems in recent years along with all his health issues in between and how he's been in and out of the hospital constantly in the last two years. He also had a motorcycle accident a few weeks ago, multiple rehab stints, etc. Anyway, Smith was arrested on Oct. 25th and again on Oct. 26th. The first time, it was on 2 counts of threatening to kill his wife and her sister Ellie (again...Nattie's mom). After being released the next day, he allegedly threatened his wife again and was arrested again. She thought he was still in custody and went back to the house and was surprised to find him there and that led to the second arrest. Police have been to their house several times in the last few months for domestic disputes. There was also an incident a while back with Smith getting into a fight with Diana's new boyfriend, a Stampede wrestler who wrestles under the name Dick Butkus Jr. during which 85-year-old Stu Hart had to get involved and help break it up. Anyway, Smith spent this past weekend behind bars in Calgary, spending his time signing autographs for other inmates, but was released on the 30th on bail. But he faces 5 charges related to all his threats. Part of the conditions for his release were paying a $10,000 fine and he's not allowed to have any contact with Diana, Ellie, Bruce Hart, or Diana's new boyfriend. (Dave later mentions that Davey Boy is shacking up with Bruce's estranged wife Andrea now. Man, this fuckin' family, I tell ya...) He's also not allowed to drink or take any non-prescribed drugs and is ordered to stay away from where his wife is staying, along with staying away from Bruce Hart's home and Stu Hart's home. He was also ordered to enter rehab, even though he denied in court that he still has a drug problem.
Davey Boy is still under WWF contract, though he hasn't wrestled a match in months. But the WWF has suspended him pending the company's own investigation of the charges. In the past, he blamed his drug issues and back problems from taking a bump on Ultimate Warrior's trap door in the ring when he was in WCW. Dave recaps the series of events that led to him getting rehired by WWF and talks about how they hired Jim Neidhart back as well and it was no secret that Smith, Diana, and Neidhart's wife Ellie were all planning to testify against the family in the Owen Hart case if it had gone to trial. So it wasn't exactly a coincidence that both Smith and Neidhart got jobs that neither of them really had any business getting (Neidhart was hired as a trainer, which everyone knew he wasn't qualified for and Smith was brought back as a wrestler despite a crippling back injury and more crippling drug problem). Neidhart was quietly released a few weeks ago and with the Owen Hart lawsuit finally settled, it probably doesn't look good for Smith (indeed, he never stepped foot in the WWF again).
WCW Halloween Havoc is in the books and was possibly the worst wrestling PPV of the year. At this point, you'd think everyone in WCW would be putting their best foot forward to impress potential buyers, especially if that buyer ends up being the WWF and Vince becomes their new boss. But it was almost all bad matches and abysmal booking. The only bright side is that it was in Vegas and a lot of the tickets were sold to casinos for giveaways, so the show ended up being one of the biggest live gates WCW has had in awhile, even if the crowd wasn't exactly all wrestling fans. Russo is now out of the picture (claiming post-concussion syndrome and stress), but the show was booked by guys like Ed Ferrara and Bill Banks, who are basically mini-Russos and are just keeping his chair warm. So it wasn't quite the same scattershot chaos as most Russo-booked shows, but it still had the same lack of understanding about what makes a good wrestling show that Russo has perfected. Everyone involved (Ferrara, Banks, Terry Taylor, Johnny Ace, etc.) were told to continue Russo's stories rather than changing direction so everything mostly stayed the same.
Other notes from Halloween Havoc: the opening tag title three-way match was the best and really only good match on the show., due to Mysterio, Kidman, and Alex Wright's performances. In typical WCW fashion, they had a top notch snafu showing Palumbo and Stasiak in their street clothes backstage, just seconds after being in their gear and doing a run-in on the previous match. So they put up a thing on the screen that said "taped earlier in the day" to cover for it, but then during the segment, Palumbo and Stasiak were talking about what they just did in the ring minutes earlier. David Flair looked totally lost in his first blood match with Bagwell and even though he's been a midcard star in WCW for over a year now, Dave says if he went to OVW, he'd still be the worst guy on the roster. David Flair is just not ready for the big leagues and it shows. Negative star. Mike Sanders vs. The Cat in a kickboxing match was a total clusterfuck that Cat apparently refused to do the job for since it's "his" gimmick match, so he lost by count-out instead, even though the time limit for the last round had already expired and it was just a mess. Negative half star. Mike Awesome vs. Vampiro is negative 2.5 stars. That's three matches in a row in the negatives, with 2 DUD rankings book-ending them. Dave expected Awesome/Vampiro to actually be good but it had more blown spots than any match he's seen on PPV in years. They were apparently supposed to do a table spot to end the match but they couldn't find any tables under the ring and the match fell apart and Vampiro ended up taking a top rope powerbomb that gave him a concussion and shook him up badly (didn't stop WCW from having him take another powerbomb at the Thunder taping the next day, even though he told them beforehand about the concussion, but we'll get there). And babyface world champion Booker T was booed by a good chunk of the crowd during his match with Scott Steiner.
The latest PRIDE event in Japan drew a sellout crowd mostly due to so many pro wrestlers being involved. It also saw Naoya Ogawa defeat Masaaki Satake in a match most people believed was worked. Ogawa is Antonio Inoki's protege and he's keeping Ogawa protected. Dave says it definitely helps Ogawa keep his name and star power in a highly publicized match, but it doesn't say a lot for PRIDE's credibility. There's also suspicion that Nobuhiko Takada's fight against Igor Vovchanchyn was somewhat worked. Takada lost, but Igor is one of the top ranked heavyweights in the world and Takada went nearly 2 full rounds with him. Most people suspect the finish wasn't worked, but that Igor was told to take it easy on him because Takada is still a big draw and they wanted him to look strong in defeat against a guy he had no chance with. There were several other wrestlers on the card as well. Inoki came out at intermission and announced he was putting together his own show at the Osaka Dome for New Year's Eve (this ends up being the Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye show, which also sees Inoki come out of retirement for his final "match" ever. More on all this in a bit).
Genichiro Tenryu, at age 51, defeated Toshiaki Kawada to win the tournament and be crowned AJPW's newest Triple Crown champion, filling the vacancy left over after previous champion Kobashi left for NOAH. This complicates the AJPW/NJPW angle. There's 2 Tokyo Dome shows coming up in January. The first is NJPW's Jan. 4th show and there's another one near the end of the month that's an AJPW show, but will have some NJPW involvement. But Motoko Baba wants to protect the champion because she's hoping AJPW will still survive after the NJPW angle is over. In the past, companies like UWFI and WAR were desperate to survive and started working with NJPW, only to be devoured by NJPW's booking and left to die after the angle ran its course. Mrs. Baba is hoping to avoid the same fate, so she's not going to let Tenryu work a NJPW show and lose (remember, at the last show, NJPW's champion Kensuke Sasaki lost to Kawada and they won't let that happen 2 times in a row). Now that he's not the champion, it frees Kawada up to have a rematch with Sasaki, where he will presumably return the favor and do the job, but it won't be to unify the titles anymore.
Let's look at some various poll results. Every issue has results for the polls they run online every day or so. Usually I skip over these because they're boring but they're kinda interesting this week. "How should WCW handle the situation with Kevin Nash and Scott Hall" got 55% of voters saying Nash should be suspended for going off script on live TV. As for the future of ECW, 30% of voters think it won't last much longer, while most everyone else thinks it will struggle but continue to survive. Whoops. And finally, Bret Hart's greatest match was 35% for the match with Owen at WM10 and 33% for the match with Austin at WM13.
Stan Hansen has an autobiography that was released in Japanese that is selling like crazy in Japan. Hansen is near the end of his career, but he's probably the most popular American wrestler in Japanese history and has been a top star there since the 70s. (Hansen had an English autobiography released in 2012 called The Last Outlaw. I'm not sure if it's the same book translated to English or if there's another one out there in Japanese from 12 years earlier).
NOAH will hold tournaments early next year to crown their first heavyweight, tag team, and junior heavyweight champions.
Shinya Hashimoto was pulled out of upcoming NJPW shows because they're apparently doing an angle where he is starting his own promotion, in order to do a feud with NJPW (turns out this wasn't an angle at all. Hashimoto really did get fired from NJPW around this time and started Pro Wrestling Zero-One. The real story there is murky and no one seems to know for sure exactly what led to his firing. I think he ended up doing one or two more matches for NJPW over the next year or so, but otherwise, this is the end of Hashimoto in NJPW).
Dave recently had a chance to read the book "Bodyslams!" by former WCW ring announcer Gary Michael Cappetta and liked it. It's not better than Mick Foley's book or anything, but Dave gives it credit for accuracy. Mostly it glosses over a lot of the scandalous stuff and is more about Cappetta's personal experiences rather than giving much detail on what was happening in the business at the time. Dave thinks the book could have gone into more detail on the things going on behind the scenes in WCW during pivotal periods like when Jim Herd, Kip Frey, or Bill Watts was in charge. Overall, definitely better than The Rock's farce of a book but still lacking what made Foley's and Dynamite Kid's books so fascinating.
Steve Allen, the famous comedian and first ever host of the Tonight Show, died last week at age 78. This is only relevant here because most recently, Allen has been one of the lead spokespeople for the PTC and has been one of the most vocal opponents of WWF programming. Ironically enough, early in his career, Allen worked on TV as a wrestling announcer in the 1950s, though he never took it seriously, and in 1990, he appeared at Wrestlemania 6.
The documentary "Gaea Girls", which is about a young woman trying to get into Japanese women's wrestling, has been winning some awards and been admitted to some film festivals.
"Walker: Texas Ranger" this week did an episode loosely based on Owen Hart's death. It's about a wrestler, in costume, who fell from the ceiling during a show. Although in the case of this show, it was a murder ordered by a ruthless promoter trying to take over the territory of another promoter, who's a kind, older guy. The obvious parallels were a more evil version of Vince McMahon and a gentler version of Stu Hart. Dave thought the episode sucked and also got really sad by it. Dave says he hasn't watched Over The Edge again since Owen's death and seeing it fictionally re-enacted for a TV show was really depressing.
Scott Hall was arrested this week for probation violation while he was already in court for a child custody hearing. This charge stems from some 1998 case where he keyed up a limo outside a strip club in Orlando. At the time, Hall had been given probation and ordered to complete a bunch of community service by April of 2000. He never completed the community service, so....probation violation. Hall was in court with his estranged wife Dana and he filed for sole custody of their 2 children, claiming Dana is "emotionally and mentally unstable and an unfit parent" but then Hall got arrested at the courthouse and the hearing was postponed. Speaking of, Dana herself has had 2 contempt-of-court charges against her recently for refusing to let Hall have visitation with their kids when she was supposed to.
PPV news: CMLL in Mexico is holding a big year end show in December and are negotiating for it to air on PPV in the U.S., which would be the first Lucha Libre PPV to air here since When Worlds Collide in 1994. And remember a few months back when a promoter in Australia brought in Dennis Rodman and a bunch of other kinda big name stars and ran a show? Well it will also air on PPV in the U.S. and Canada and Mexico next month. That show was headlined by Rodman vs. Curt Hennig which ended in a double-count out because apparently Rodman refused to do the job. Word is that show was terrible, like this year's version of Heroes of Wrestling, but Australia is so starved for live wrestling that the crowd heat was still off-the-charts.
Juventud Guerrera worked an indie show in Puerto Rico and right now, he's trying to get hired in WWF, or at least stay out of trouble long enough to get rehired by WCW. Guerrera has reached out to WWF through friends he has there, but after what happened with him last month in Australia, WWF apparently isn't interested.
The latest OVW show saw Nick Dinsmore win the OVW title from Rob Conway. On the same show, Brock Lesnar wrestled a dark match against former UFC fighter Ron Waterman. Lesnar won and hey, who knows, maybe he's got a future in beating up UFC fighters.
Ted Dibiase and Nikita Koloff are on a church tour together where they wrestle matches against each other and then preach sermons or something.
The lines between wrestling and MMA got blurrier this week when Atsushi Onita went to the PRIDE offices and met with their promoter. Onita then issued a challenge to Antonio Inoki for a match, saying he wants to retire (of course) and his last match has to be with Inoki. PRIDE officials put out a statement saying they wouldn't promote one of Onita's exploding barbed wire matches, but that they would gladly promote Inoki vs. Onita under PRIDE rules in their ring. Inoki responded, telling reporters that he's retired. There's rumor that Onita will be appearing at Inoki's New Year's Eve show to set up some kind of angle.
Paul Heyman and Sabu have a court date scheduled for later this month over their issues. If you remember, Sabu left ECW to go try to go to WCW but his contract prevented it. Heyman then sued Sabu for breach of contract when he started working other shows (particularly for XPW). Meanwhile, Sabu has also filed some legal paperwork to try to get out of his contract, so hopefully that will all be settled soon.
Speaking of ECW, there doesn't seem to be anything new happening on the TV front. Negotiations with USA have apparently stalled. So....not great news. The latest episode of ECW Hardcore TV shows the signs of how things are going. The in-ring action was good but the show is beginning to look more and more low-budget by the week, as the company continues struggling to stay afloat. The announcers weren't flown in (it was dubbed in later in post-production) and the lighting was terrible.
Still nothing new on the sale of WCW but rumors are flying like crazy because everyone is paranoid. For the first time, in an interview, Linda McMahon acknowledged that it's true that WWF is in discussions to purchase WCW but word is no substantial progress has been made yet.
Notes from Nitro: it was a sad episode because the crowd was tiny and it almost felt like a bad indie show, especially because the small crowd was pretty dead. It was a disaster, with a total of 1,454 fans in the building and only 768 of them paid. Even worse, they tried to paper it but only 33% of the free tickets that were given out were used. WCW literally can't even give this shit away. Ric Flair returned as the new CEO of WCW and got almost no pop at all from the crowd, then cut a boring promo. Dave thinks it's sad that this is where things have gotten for him. The greatest of all time, cutting middling promos in front of a small crowd for a dying company. Then Jarrett came out to talk and the mic went dead. The fans chanted for Scott Hall all through the Kronik/Palumbo & Stasiak match. Kevin Nash was on commentary but after last week, he was finally ordered to stop talking about Hall. So instead of mentioning Hall himself, when the crowd started chanting, Nash kept asking, "What are they chanting?" but the other announcers wouldn't acknowledge him.
Thunder was taped immediately after Nitro and the only notable thing there was a Lance Storm vs. Norman Smiley match that was apparently so bad that Storm went on his website afterward and pre-emptively apologized to the fans for the match. As of press time, it hasn't aired yet so I guess we'll see (the 2000 Thunders aren't on the Network and I can't find this online, so no idea how bad it was or wasn't).
Backstage morale in WCW isn't great, which probably goes without saying. Word is much of the crew, wrestlers and backstage employees alike, are so drained by all the negativity and sale rumors that everyone has pretty much mentally quit. They're all just going through the motions every week now while waiting to see what's going to happen with their jobs.
Buff Bagwell did an interview with the Observer website a few days before the Halloween Havoc PPV and had plenty of interesting things to say. He ripped on Vince Russo for the way he booked himself along with guys like Luger and DDP and basically just how awful Russo's booking is. He also complained about WCW fining people for showing up late. He complained about not getting a big raise like everyone else got back in 1998 because he was out with a neck injury when Bischoff was giving raises and complained about being underpaid compared to all the other "A-talent" like himself. Talked about how screwed up WCW is, saying Lex Luger is being paid $1.3 million a year to do jobs for Hugh Morrus. "Are you kidding me? Hugh is a great guy and all that, but he's not A-talent. I love him to death, but he's never going to draw a dime. We're talking about drawing money and he's never going to draw a fuckin' dime. And Luger is putting him over at house shows? Nothing is adding up. I know for a fact that if they try to get me to job for (David) Flair at Havoc, I'm going to walk out the door. I'm not doing it." In response to all this, WCW put Hugh Morrus over big on Nitro while they had Bagwell job to Luger in 2 minutes on the same show. Well, at least someone in WCW gets punished for the shit they say.
IMPORTANT NOTE:For only the second time ever in writing these Rewinds, I have hit the 40,000 character limit. So once again, the rest of this Rewind will be posted in a comment below, so keep scrolling. Upvote it for visibility I guess?
The Story of Joe Rogan and the Stern Show: “…my problem with Howard's version of the story is that it's complete horseshit"
(Crosspost from howardstern) https://www.reddit.com/howardstern/comments/chm9yx/the_story_of_joe_rogan_and_the_stern_show_my/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x The Story of Joe Rogan and the Stern Show: “…my problem with Howard's version of the story is that it's complete horseshit"📷 Hello, Hello. Here's an original rundown of the events leading to Joe Rogan's eventual departure from the Stern Show. If you've enjoyed this, check out my previous behind the scene write ups on the bottom. Thanks. Howard is kicking off promotion for his latest book Howard Stern: Comes Again. He gives a rare candid interview with David Marchese of the New York Times. David asks Howard about his thoughts on podcasts before turning his attention to Joe Rogan. “Is there an issue between you guys?” he asks. “Yeah, there is,” Stern replies. “I was a fan of Joe’s comedy. He does a great routine about working out with weights with his buddy in the basement, and before you know it, they’re having full-on gay sex.” In typical Stern fashion, he would go on to take credit for Rogan’s success. “So I was a big proponent of his before he was a host on TV, before he got into M.M.A. fighting or whatever. I used to have him on the show...” Stern said. It’s the year 2000. Joe Rogan had just capped off a five year stint on NewsRadio, a NBC prime time comedy. It would feature the likes of Phil Hartman, who was tragically murdered by his wife in between production of the forth and fifth season. He had also been the backstage and post-fight interviewer for the UFC, a position he’d held for 2 years before quitting. Rogan’s comedy caught the eye of Warner Bros Records, who signed him to a three album deal. Joe would go on to release “I'm Gonna Be Dead Some Day...” on CD and cassette that year. It would gain a cult following thanks to the emergence of peer to peer file sharing in the form of Napster. The album would get frequent airtime on The Howard Stern Show, where the opening track “Getting Pumped” became a favorite of Howard and the gang. Rogan would make his first appearance on the show September 18, 2000 and talked about the sketch. “My buddy, Bryan Callen, who I did the sketch with… he and I are always doing that, we’re always playing around like that...” It wasn’t long before Howard dug up memories of Joe’s childhood. More specifically, his experience with a pedophile at the age of 12. [AUDIO] “He’s like ‘You know, I just want to tell you that I love ya. You’re a great guy… Yeah, but you know, without sex there could be no real love...’ and I went, what? I just panicked.” He also opened up about his biological father, Joe Rogan Sr. “I haven’t spoken to him since I was seven years old.” His father would attempt to contact him once he started gaining some fame. “He’s tried to do it through his mother and once through his sister… Yeah, when I got on TV. He saw my name somewhere...” The topic then turned to the murder-suicide of fellow costar Phil Hartman. [AUDIO] “How’d you find out?” Howard asked. “I went out on a date with a girl from Hard Copy. It was a bad date. I never went out with her again. She calls me like three weeks later at like 8:30 in the morning and wakes me up. I’m like ‘What are you waking me up for?’’ She would be one to break the news to Joe. “She’s like ‘You didn’t hear?… I don’t want to be the one to tell you… Phil’s dead’. Immediately after, she’s like ‘What’s going to happen to the show?’” Joe would continue. “It gets worse. I’m in shock. I’m in a coma. I’m turning on the TV. You know, I can’t believe this. Then she goes ‘Joe, we need to get a sound byte from you.’… So I hang up the phone. I’m like ‘I got to go.’ So then the phone starts ringing, everybody’s calling, everybody heard the news, all my friends… Twenty minutes later, she calls again. ‘Joe, um, how are you? OK?’ I’m like ‘I don’t know.’ She goes ‘Listen, we need to get your address.’ I go ‘Why?’, she goes ‘We’re sending a camera crew over. We have to interview you.’” There was also talk about an incident with another costar, Andy Dick, on the set. [AUDIO] Rogan was in his trailer along with his girlfriend when Andy came knocking. “I was getting dressed and Andy starts pounding on the door. He’s like, ‘What are you doing? What are you doing in there? Are you having sex?’ I’m like, ‘No. Dude, I'm getting dressed. Get out of here’. He’s like ‘Just open up the door. I have to tell you something.’ So I open up the door and Andy’s standing there with his unit in his hand, with his pants half down and wacking it.” Joe was a hit. He would become a regular from that day on, even sitting in during the show. He also returned to the UFC after an ownership change, where he was promoted to color commentator. More importantly, he became host of the hottest summer show of 2001, Fear Factor. This lead to legendary on air battles with Vinnie Favale, self appointed CBS spokesperson. Vinnie was actually Vice President of CBS Late Night Programming, East Coast, but couldn’t resist any opportunity to defend the network in any capacity. The two would argue repeatedly over the success of Joe’s hit show, which happened to be on a competing network. Usually, in complete denial, Vinnie would try to spin any dispute in CBS’ favor. The host of Fear Factor laid into him during an argument in the summer of ‘01. [AUDIO] “You’re a company man. This is sad. You’re the kind of guy that gets fired from his job and blows his brains out because you believe that everything revolves around your company. You are sucked in. ‘We’re going to kick your asses.’ It's not even you! You’re not even doing anything. You have nothing to do with Survivor. You have nothing to do with the programming. You have nothing to do with the success of it” he said. Their clashes would be a staple of Best Of in the early 2000’s. However, the relationship between Joe and the show would come to an end in 2004. Stern would go on during that 2019 New York Times Interview. “Joe was a guest one time and I said something to him off the air, which I won’t go into, but he took offense. I haven’t heard or seen him since. I think he made the decision that I was toxic for him. But I hold no grudge.” On the May 4, 2009 show, the Stern Show would discuss the controversy in some detail. [AUDIO] Howard kicks off the conversation with some tape he has from the previous night. “… So I told you Joe had some problem with me, so he discussed it with Greg Fitzsimmons.” “He wont discuss it with us?” Robin asks. “No, and you know, I remember the exact incident and everything and I knew this is what it was,” Howard says. Joe would explain his version of events on Fitzsimmons show. “Well, I kind of explained it the last time I was here but, I just try to avoid drama, you know? He said something about me on the air that I didn’t like… He said I hate women and I was like, come on man, really? He said something about us being in a strip club, where we were all in a strip club, and he said, you know… He had did a thing in Vegas and he had hired out a whole section of this strip club. It was pretty bad ass... I remember I was really high and when I’m really high, I can’t get lap dances. It just weirds me out. It’s just too freaky. You can feel this person really doesn’t want to do this, this is their job, then you start thinking about their past. So anyway, he starts saying that I said to them ‘Get away, whores’, which I’d never say. It’s just not true… For me, first of all, it’s like I'm going to have to defend that and whenever you’re defending something like that, it always automatically looks like you’re being defensive because it’s bullshit.” Joe continued, making sure to be clear there were no hard feelings. “I don’t want to even be involved and I just said, I'll just be a fan again… and I listen all the time.” Howard would shoot back. “I’ll tell you the whole story and Joe’s right. It’s better that Joe doesn’t come on again because he’s building this thing up. You know, first of all, I’m somebody who has guests on and I try to make them comfortable when they’re on the show and I try to be a good interviewer and I also try to, you know, create something. We were in Vegas. Joe showed up to a strip club. It wasn’t my event. I was at a strip club. They had invited us over, am I correct? We were there. I think one of our guys was making an appearance there... “… Maybe Joe was high or something. He was saying shit about some of the strippers and I said to him on the air that it seems like you’re angry with women. You know, you were just kind of pissed off. He was hateful, you know. You can make the same statements about me about what I do for a living… “… He was saying stuff to me about the women… He seemed angry and I said to him sometimes it seems like you’re angry with women. What was going on that night? I don’t think he wanted that out there or as he says he didn’t say it or maybe I misheard it…” Gary would jump into the studio and add his own version of events. “I always thought it was about something I talked about on the radio. Maybe it is something different. I remember we went out one night… We walked into the strip club and Joe goes ‘These girls are all fucking, you know, God, they’re all fucking damaged. I fucking hate these chicks. I’m not even going to get a lap dance,’” Gary said. Howard would continue and even for a moment, he would second guess himself. “I didn’t mean it as a whole intellectual… I thought Joe would say ‘Hey, Howard. Come on, man. I was tired...’ or you know we’d have some interesting conversation about it but Joe took it really personally and I understand that he did. Now in retrospect, maybe I’m looking at it and going...” but Gary wouldn’t let his boss show weakness. “I don’t know Howard. I think he’s overreacting.” Gary would continue, “We did a lot of good things for him. We had him on the show. You know, we helped him out a lot in a lot of ways. I think at one point I had a discussion with his manager and he’s like ‘You know, if Howard was a friend he would never had said it’ and I said ‘Well, if Joe was a friend, he would have asked about it and discussed it instead of just never talking about it.’” Howard would end the segment questioning Rogan’s version of events with his own evidence. “According to our show log, it shows that Gary was the one who said Joe called the girls whores. I had also heard Joe saying some stuff and I said to Joe ‘Joe, sometimes it seems like you were angry that night with women’ and I wanted him to talk about it on the air but I guess it was a road he didn’t want to go down.” The day in question is February 7, 2002. The Stern Show is broadcasting from the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas on delay. Joe Rogan was the first guest on their opening day. Howard got into a discussion about the previous night. [AUDIO]
Howard: … then we went over to Club Paradise, the strip club. Then I figured I'd just walk in there and not know anyone. Everyone was there from the show. Artie: Well I had a big appearance there. Howard: Yeah, Artie had an appearance there and Stuttering John has one there tonight, but Joe Rogan, you try to act like you’re above the strip club. Joe Rogan: No. What are you talking about? How am I trying to act like I'm above it? Howard: You’re always like, ‘Ah, these girls [mumbles incoherently]’ Joe Rogan: What? They’re hot. What are you talking about? Howard: Yeah. Joe Rogan: No such thing. Howard: Alright, I thought… then I just see you sitting there. Joe Rogan: What are you talking about? You’re making this up. Gary: Joe uses the word whore about 20 times an hour. Howard: Yeah, he says ‘these whores’, this, that, and the other. Joe Rogan: I don’t say it like that. I don’t say it that way. I say it in an affectionate way. Howard: I think you’re angry with women. Robin: Well, he does that whole routine about the girls who are angry because he’s using a dollar to get them to take off their clothes. Howard: That is a good routine… Stuttering John: …When we were at the pool Howard, you know, Joe looks at me and he goes ‘Look, these are lower shelf hookers here tonight’. Joe Rogan: That was the first crew. Howard: They were lovely ladies. Joe Rogan: Oh, stop Howard. That first crew was rough. Mr. Miyagi with the fake boobs. Howard: You think because a girl takes her clothes off and dances that she’s a whore? Joe Rogan: No, not all of them. Stuttering John: Bottom shelf whores is what he said. That’s what it was. Joe Rogan: The first crew… Club Paradise Stripper: Look at you, you Fear Factor guy. You’re just paranoid with women. Joe Rogan: You’re hot. You girls are hot. I’m not talking about you. Club Paradise Stripper: Look at you. You were so mean yesterday. You were mean. Joe Rogan: Mean to who? How was I mean? To you?
The moment ended up being rather uneventful. In fact, this wouldn’t be Joe’s last appearance on the show. He would stop by the studio several more times, most notably on September 22, 2003. Joe is in the studio to promote Fear Factor, The Man Show, and UFC. In what may or may not be a coincidence, there is a woman in the green room waiting to play Stump the Booey who just so happens to have slept with Joe Rogan. Gary would burst into he studio while Joe was on the couch. “You know, there’s something really weird. We have these girls that are coming on next segment. They’re playing Stump the Booey against me. They’re twins. One of the girls heard Joe on and she’s like ‘ Oh, I have a story about Joe.’” Her name was Crystal. [AUDIO] “He was my first one night stand,” she said. Joe would vaguely remember the two hooking up many years ago. What she said next would nearly have Joe’s eyes popping out of his head. “… After that wonderful one night stand, I got pregnant,” she announced to millions of radio listeners. Joe was in a state of shock as it was the first time he was hearing the news. “How old is your son or daughter?” Howard asked. “I never kept it,” she replied. The news would send Joe into frenzy, as if Maury Povich himself had opened up an envelope with the DNA results. “Thank you, Jesus!” Rogan screamed. Howard asked Joe if he was nervous that she was going to bring the kid in. “Well, it was a little creepy right there for a moment,” he replied. Crystal would then go on to talk about her decision to have an abortion. Joe would interrupt. “I’m so nervous right now. My heart is skipping.” Howard asks “What scares you most about that? The fact that you have a kid, that you have to pay… what would scare you the most? Joe didn’t hesitate. “It’s that I would be connected to someone that I really don’t know for the rest of my life and I’d have to deal with her every time I wanted to see the kid, if I wanted to see the kid.” He then admitted it wasn’t even his first abortion predicament. “The other time was when I was 23. It was a girl I was dating” Fast forwarding to 2004, we find what might have been Joe’s last straw with the show. While previously citing show logs during that 2009 discussion, Howard would make the claim he never made the “Get away, whores” comment. Instead, he would place the blame on Gary. However, a discussion that took place on September 22, 2004 would prove that statement to be false. Comedienne Bonnie McFarlane had stopped by the show and sat in for the news. She was once a writer for The Man Show when it was hosted by Rogan and Doug Stanhope. [AUDIO] While discussing Rogan, Howard would go on to say, “Joe hates women… Joe’s weird. I’ve gone to strip clubs with him and he’s like ‘get away from me, whore.’”Robin would continue the onslaught. “… Even when we were in Vegas together and there were stripper dancers, he was yelling all kinds of horrible things. I was like ‘these women aren’t doing anything to you. Why are you screaming at them?’” They would continue with allegations of Joe yelling at the Juggies, a nickname given to the Man Show dancers. Bonnie would go on to say Joe was the biggest supporter of the Juggies, often yelling at the director for his treatment of the females. However, he would usually follow that up with yelling of his own. Around 2007, a topic on the incident would appear on the mma.tv message boards. Rogan himself would reply to the allegations. It would be the most detailed version of events during this whole controversy. “… my problem with Howard's version of the story is that it's complete horseshit. I never said ‘get away whores’ to anyone. We were at a party that they were throwing for the show, and there were a lot of pretty strippers, but there were also a lot of unattractive, aggressive ones that were trying to get guys to buy lapdances. Howard, and some of the other guys were getting them, and I didn't want one. The girls were pushy, and all I kept saying is ‘no thanks.’ Somehow, that got turned into ‘get away, whores’ when he got on the radio. “Howard likes drama, real or created. It makes for good radio. That's all well and good, but I choose not to be put on the defensive for something that I never did. Also, I've got a real pet peeve with the whole ‘you hate women’ tag. It's a weak line that people will throw around to try to define someone, often if they don't like or have a problem with dumb or obnoxious chicks. If you have a problem with dumb dudes, no one ever says that ‘you hate men,’ but you get in one argument with a pushy cunt and that's the cop out they'll always try to use. It's like a lazy black guy that gets reprimanded at work for doing a shitty job, and he cries that the reason he's getting in trouble is because the boss doesn't like black people. “When you've got a guy that you respect and admire, and you've done his show a bunch of times you think that you're friends. Then, when that guy turns on you and talks shit about you, especially shit that's not true, it's a gross feeling. I'm a loyal friend, and that shit means a lot to me. “If I had a friend outside of show business and he gave a distorted account of me like that, I would stop hanging around with him, and I wouldn't trust him anymore. I treat my friends in show business the same way I treat my friends in real life. “As for Howard, I have no ill feelings. I was always a huge fan of the show, and it was an honor to be on it. When I decided to avoid doing the show after this, I started doing Opie and Anthony, and I really enjoyed their show. Jim Norton is a buddy of mine from way back when we both were starting out as stand ups, and I really fucking love being on that show. Plus, I think Norton is the funniest guy on radio. I'll probably do Stern again sometime, I just thought that whole situation was really weak, and I didn't want to be a part of it... “I still listen to Stern all the time, and I think it's a great show. I've always considered him to be the Johnny Carson of my era. In past eras it was HUGE to get on the tonight show with Johnny and have him ask you to sit on the couch. In my generation, it's Stern. He's the King for a reason. No hate, I just don't feel like being a part of the kind of shit I described….” Joe would copy and paste his response on the Official Joe Rogan Forum along with a small update: “ In reading the post back after flying across the Atlantic Ocean (on my way to UFC in Belfast) I had time to think about it, and I think there definitely could be a very convincing argument that I had sand in my vagina when I made it, but I did make it, so i left it up. “I'm certainly not trying to get in some sort of a battle with a guy that's helped me out, and a guy that I respect very much….” Joe Rogan would go on to be very complimentary of Stern in the following years. Even when Howard would go on to attack close friend Ari Shaffir about the legitimacy of podcasts, Rogan would continue to show his appreciation for the self appointed King of All Media. Vinny Favale would continue to take shots at Rogan after his show absence. In a conversation that would take place on March 9, 2005, Gary would question Vinny’s expertise on everything network TV. “I was watching Fear Factor in syndication yesterday on UPN and you told Joe Rogan that show was done, it had a few months left, and it was over”. Vinny, notorious for being the ultimate company man responded, “That show is not a hit though… Where is Joe Rogan? You don’t see him anywhere”. Rogan would go on to be on of the most listened to voices in the world with the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. Vinny Favale would later be pushed out of CBS after allegations of misconduct, which included talking to fellow employees about his erections. New Late Show host Stephen Colbert would distance himself from the creator of the infamous Debbie tapes. “He [Favale] basically came with the building when I got this show...”
Angela was the coolest supervisor I’ve ever had. At the time, we were working at a little advertising startup called Digital Marketing Technologies, or just DMT. She was a graphic designer and I was hired out of College to manage Google ad accounts. But to Brad, none of that mattered. Brad was the owner and only salesman of our little startup. A balding, late thirties wannabe celebrity, he envisioned himself as the next Gary Vee. So much so that he regarded his LinkedIn self promotional videos as more important than his clients. He was a good salesman, but he had nothing even remotely approaching anything resembling knowledge on how to effectively run a business. Case in point, almost all of the staff who wasn’t strictly video, were designated as ‘graphic designers’ whether or not they actually were one. That was the bucket I currently fell in. Brad had tossed me into that position after jerking me around his company as an intern for the better part of a year, and treating me like absolute garbage. At first, I took it with a smile, figuring that’s just how it was. While I was working under Angela though, she made it abundantly clear just how fucked up Brad actually was. Being a young white man, with little experience, I didn’t see the rampant sexism, barely subdued racism and ethically dubious business practices that defined Brad. He hid it well for the most part under his fantastical razzle dazzle of technobabble and pompous self importance. He paraded around like a rock star, hosting $10,000 seminars in Toronto that no one came to, and uploading what he considered to be nuggets of marketing genius, most which were barely more than drunken ramblings. He was a sham and Angela saw right through him, and she made sure he didn’t try and fuck over his own employees. Brad’s startup was already circling the drain. His VP, Craig had quit in a rage about a month ago, followed by his assistant Janice. With the structure of his upper management compromised, he’d made the crucial mistake of bringing in Jake. Jake was Brad’s biggest fan. A mechanic by trade, who sold juice for a multi level marketing scheme on the side, his ‘job application’ had been an overlong fan letter that Janice had shared with us just before she left. While Brad didn’t openly call him Craig’s replacement, that was basically what he was.I would have felt bad for him. An inexperienced Yes Man getting put into a role he couldn’t possibly fill. Maybe I could have even related, but Jake had one fundamental flaw. He was every bit the asshole that Brad was, and something of a creep to boot. He stared at people too long, smiled too wide and acted so condescendingly friendly. He’d ask the stupidest questions in a tone that implied that YOU were the idiot who didn’t know what was going on, not the other way around. Like Brad, he fancied himself a Marketing guru. He even had his own website that was essentially a blank screen with a link to his merch store. Yes, he had a merch store. No, no one ever bought anything off of it. His one redeeming quality was that he was about as dumb as a box of rocks, and it was almost pathetically easy to slip stealth insults into casual conversation with him. So, to put a lid on it all, DMT was already a rapidly sinking dumpster fire of a company, with more problems than I have time to list. Being the ‘genius’ that he was however, Brad had a fix. Since the holidays were coming around, and I’m pretty sure it was impossible not to notice that his modest staff all hated him, Brad elected to throw the Christmas party early, and he wanted to pull out all the stops. He booked everyone individual hotel rooms in Niagara Falls for a Thursday-Friday night of partying. To Brad, that meant enough alcohol to kill most living things and gambling away that years profits. The idea was not a popular one… But, most of us stuck it out, hoping that maybe, just maybe it wouldn’t suck. It did. Angela and I had driven down together, and suffered through the disappointment together. I wouldn’t call that Thursday night much of a Christmas party, as much as a disorganized bender. We all watched Brad knock back drink after drink, getting louder and more obnoxious. Given that it was a Thursday in November, very little was open late, and the evening barely lasted until around 10 before Brad decided it was time to hit the casinos! I bowed out at that point. Gambling never interested me, and I had absolutely zero interest in watching Brad get hammered and waste more money that he probably didn’t have. He didn’t take that so well. “Come on, Greg!” he slurred, just outside the Fallsview Casino. “Okay, I’ll tell you what. I’ll stake you. If you win, it’s yours man!” “No thanks, it wouldn’t feel right to gamble with your money.” I said. “Okay well… Okay… What about a years payroll, right?” He looked around at the others with us. I saw Angela’s brow crinkle in disgust. “Let’s just pool it, and see where we get?!” No one took him up on that offer, and he waved it off, enthusiastically going to feed another of his many addictions. According to Angela when I talked to her the next morning, it had gone about as well as expected. Brad hadn’t gone broke, but he had needed Jake to carry him back to his hotel room. Angela herself had left shortly after I did and only got that information from one of the other ‘Graphic Designers’ Leanne. As soon as we had the chance to leave, Angela and I were in my car and headed back to Hamilton. “You know, you’d think he would’ve taken the hint that none of us wanted to go, but he did it, and then he wonders why no one had a good time. It’s Niagara Falls at midnight on a Thursday. Of course nothing was open!” Angela said as we drove. “Well, least we got free food.” I said, it was just about the biggest and only positive aspect of the event. Angela scoffed. “Yeah… Funny how he ran out on the bill and made Jake pay.” I hadn’t noticed that, but I still believed it. She looked down at her phone, checking a game she was playing on it, before pausing. “Oh shoot, hey, do you mind if we make a quick stop?” “Not at all, why what’s up?” “I figure we’re in wine country, right? I wanted to pick up some ice wine for my Mom, I didn’t really get the chance while we were in town.” “I don’t really see why not.” I said, “Google it, lemme know if there’s a place nearby.” She did, and sure enough there was a place a few exits ahead. “Looks like the only one open today…” She murmured, “Greystone Winerys.” She scrolled through their website for a bit, as the GPS told me where to go in a soothing British accent. The exit led me to a narrow backroad. On either side of us, all I could see was empty farmland and sparsely populated trees. No sign of anything resembling a winery. “How much further?” I asked, and she checked her phone. “Says about fifteen minutes… I dunno, it’s acting up.” I scanned the horizon for any indication of a driveway or something. But the road was just a straight unbroken line through empty lifeless land. The only sign of civilization was the phone lines on the side of the road. “Up ahead!” Angela said, just when I thought I saw something past a patch of trees. The turn she indicated led us to a worn out, empty parking lot. A skeletal gazebo sat in the middle of it, amongst patches of snow. The building in front of that gazebo was old and looked almost Victorian. Behind it, I could see what a vineyard that looked strangely empty. “This is the place.” Angela said, as I parked my car. I couldn’t help but admire that creepy parking lot. I snapped a photo of it, before following her to the building where she was trying the door. “Locked.” She said, and frowned, “Maybe they aren’t open then.” She checked her phone again, since there were no listed hours. “Google probably just lists their summer hours.” I said, “This place has to be abandoned right now.” “Yeah… Maybe I’ll stop off at a liquor store or something then. They might have some there.” Angela seemed to shrug it off, and we headed back to the car after our very brief little adventure. We were barely halfway there when I saw a familiar bright orange Corvette round the corner into the parking lot. I actually felt disappointment upon seeing it. The Corvette sped into a parking spot right beside my SUV, and Brad got out wearing the biggest grin on his face. “Hey! What are you guys doing here!” Jake got out of the passenger seat, as Brad approached us. Angela looked like she had to fight to keep from rolling her eyes and groaning in disappointment. “Keeping the party going, huh, Champ?” Brad asked playfully, and punched me on the shoulder a little too hard. “No… We were just stopping to-” “Hey, we were gonna do a wine tasting! C’mon! Join us, it’ll be fun!” That was the worst idea I had ever heard in my life, and I hated Brad even more for saying it. “I really don’t feel like it.” I said, and Jake helpfully chimed in with; “A bit of wine won’t kill you y’know, have some fun! It’ll be good for morale!” He wore the sort of smile I imagine must have physically hurt to maintain. I also felt my eyes drawn to his shirt, which naturally came from his merch store, the one that no one on the planet knew existed except for him. Shiitake Happens Real original. Brad was already pounding on the door of the winery as if the people who weren’t inside owed him money. “HEY! COME ON! WE’RE HERE FOR A WINE TASTING!” He yelled. Amazingly, no one answered! Who’d have guessed? “They’re closed.” Angela said, “We already tried.” “But Google says they’re open!” Jake chirped. “And no one’s here, so they’re closed.” Angela replied. Jake didn’t take the hint. “But Google says-” He started to repeat, but he was thankfully cut off by a gruff voice behind us. “We’re closed.” A man had come around the side of the building. He looked gruff and wore wading overalls. “Finally…” Brad murmured under his breath, “We’re here for a wine tasting!” “Those are in the summer.” The man replied, “We’re closed for the season.” “But you have wine, right?” Brad asked. The man frowned. “We do… But we’re closed.” “Well, obviously not entirely or you wouldn’t be here.” Brad said, and took out his wallet, “Look. We’re here for a wine tasting. For four…” I started to protest, but Jake had to cut me off, to avenge the stupid sentence he didn’t get to finish earlier. Angela sighed in exasperation. “Yes sir, four please!” Brad took a handful of bills I didn’t think he actually had, and offered them to the man. “Come on, it’s fine!” He assured the man. The Man just stared at him. He looked at Brad, then at Jake, then finally at Angela and I. He took the money and jammed it into one of his pockets. “Come on then… I suppose I can arrange something since you came all this way. Lemme just call Mr. Greystone.” He marched off towards the back of the building, fumbling with his cell phone and Brad followed him. “I told you it was open!” Jake said smugly, as if Brad hadn’t just begged and bribed the man to give us a wine tasting. Angela and I stayed put for a moment. “Fuck it, let’s just go.” She said. Me, misconstruing that, took a weary step forward to follow. She hesitated for a moment, before going after me. She didn’t bother correcting herself. The man led us to a long barn out behind the vineyard. Going through the empty grapevines felt a little unsettling, and as we headed out towards the barn, I heard the man and Brad talking. “So, where abouts are you folks from?” He asked. “Well, I’m from Texas originally, but I settled down here. Jake, you’re from… What, Oshawa? Hey Greg! What’s that town you live in again? Brantford? Our office is in Vaughan and this guy commutes from Brantford, can you believe that?” I didn’t answer, even though he got it right. Angela trailed behind us, being ignored by Brad, but I could tell she was furious to be caught up in this. “He’s supposed to be meeting with a client.” She said, once Jake and Brad were far enough ahead of us, “That’s where he said he was going this morning. Did you smell the booze on him?” I hadn’t, but it wasn’t hard to guess that Brad was drunk. “This is why he keeps losing business.” She said. We’d had conversations like this countless times before. I knew Angela had even brought it up with Brad, and he’d laughed it off. The Man opened the barn door, letting us inside. “I assume you’d like the tour first.” He said coolly. “Hell yes we want the tour!” Brad said and immediately stepped inside, followed by the rest of us. The Man followed us in, and closed the door behind us. As soon as he did, we heard another man speak. “So, you’re the ones Archie found out front?”The speaker was a younger man in similar wading overalls. He had a full beard and sparkling blue eyes. His handshake was firm. “I’m Isaac Greystone, I own the place. Archie tells me you were looking for a tour?” “That and a tasting!” Brad said, and hastily introduced myself and Jake. He didn’t even bother introducing Angela. “Well then, it’s a pleasure to meet you all. You just came at a really exciting time. We’re not open to the public right now, but I figure since you’re offering to pay for it, I might as well show you around, right?” “Damn right.” Brad said, “A man after my own heart.” Isaac tipped a thousand watt smile that almost rivaled Jakes. “Well, let’s get started… I suppose you know how ice wine is made, right? How we freeze the grapes, and press them to make sure our wine is concentrated. It takes a little longer to ferment, but the final product is so, so worth it.” He led us deeper into the barn. Massive machinery worked on the frozen grapes around us, and it was almost too loud to hear him speak clearly as he walked Brad and Jake through the process. I barely paid any attention, hoping we could just get this over with as soon as possible and looking for the earliest opportunity to make an excuse to leave. “We just finished our harvest this year!” Isaac said, “So the wine we’re making now is going to keep us stocked for the next year or so. It’s not going to be ready quite yet, but we’ve still got some samples!” “Well bring them out then!” Brad said, “Let’s taste these bad boys!” Isaacs grin never faded, and he led us to a side room. “I think you’re gonna love this.” He said, “We have a bit of a special fermenting technique, I can’t say too much about it right now. Trade secret and all, but it gives our wine just the right amount of body and personality. It’s why Greystone is one of the top selling ice wines in the world. We even have some exclusive labels, that we make special for some of our particularly discriminating clients…” Isaac went behind a small bar, and fetched a couple of bottles of the ice wines from a fridge beneath it. He set out four glasses. “So you do special blends?” Brad asked, and traded an approving look with Jake.“See that, that is branding. That’s what having a brand is all about!” Jake nodded enthusiastically in approval. “It’s amazing branding.” I was pretty sure that had very little to do with branding. “I’ve got some samples of those right here.” Isaac said, as if he hadn’t heard a word they were saying. He held up a bottle with the Greystone logo, and a stylized wolfs head on the label. “This we manufacture for one of our best private companies. You ever heard of the Tallinn Corporation?” “No, I don’t think I have, who are they?” Brad asked. “Our best customers, that’s who. They’re Estonian, but they love us. Here. Try a glass…” He filled all four glasses, and Brad immediately snatched one up. I saw Isaac set a bucket on the counter for us to spit the wine into after tasting it. I’d never been to a wine tasting before in my life, but even I knew you weren’t supposed to actually drink it. Brad drank it. He drank it all in one big embarassing gulp. Isaac looked at him with a bit of surprise, as if he hadn’t quite expected that. “Oh Jesus, that’s brisk!” Brad said, “Here, lemme have some more of that…” Jake, for all his flaws, had the decency to drink the wine slowly. Angela didn’t drink at all. He did not however, have the decency to not make weirdly sexual moans as he enjoyed the drink. I hated it when he did that. “Greg, try that!” Brad said, as Isaac filled up another glass for him. I took a sip. Never in my life had I ever had ice wine before, but it was delicious. Easily one of the sweetest things I’d ever tasted! I spit it into the bucket. “What? You don’t like it?” Brad asked. “No, it’s delicious!” I said, “I just thought…” “Well, here’s a toast then!” Brad raised his second glass, “Hey, Angela! Come on! Don’t be a spoilsport.” Angela just glared at him, as if to ask ‘Do you know what the fuck you’re even doing right now?’ She set her glass down. “No thanks.” “Alright… Fine, whatever.” Brad said, shrugging it off. He tossed back the glass, and Jake attempted to do the same. I just took another sip and swallowed it. I guessed it would’ve been a shame to let it go to waste. “That’s got kick…” Brad murmured. I watched as Angela headed towards the door. “I think I’m just gonna wait by the car.” She said, and I understood that she wanted to get out of there. I did too. “Greg, have some more!” Brad urged me. Angela was waiting by the door, before sighing and stepping out. I didn’t, and set my glass down. “I think I’m good, actually. Angela’s got an appointment and we should get going.” “Oh boo!” Brad said, “You can be a bit late, come on!” “We’re already late.” Angela said, “Thanks for everything, Brad. Really. See you on Monday.” She left abruptly and I followed. “Who the hell does he even think he is?” She growled as she stormed towards the exit to the barn. “Seriously, blowing off his meetings to go and get drunk? What an idiot!” I tried to keep up with her, but was starting to feel a little woozy. “Yeah, he’s a prick.” I murmured. Angela stopped in her tracks and looked back at me. “Hey, you alright?” “I think so.” I said. I could see the door to the barn, and the man who’d led us in, Archie, still standing out front of it. “How strong was that wine?” I asked. “It’s wine. There’s no way you’re drunk!” I took another few steps forwards before my legs gave out from under me and I hit the ground. Angela was on top of my immediately. “Whoa, whoa, whoa! Greg, Greg, are you alright?” My vision was going hazy, and the last thing I remember was seeing Archie coming up behind Angela and raising something over his head. I woke up to someone shaking me. “Greg! Wake up, Goddamn you!” I recognized the voice was Angela’s, and slowly as I came to, I could see her standing over me. “Finally… I was beginning to think you weren’t waking up.” “I’m awake…” I murmured, “What happened?” “You passed out and someone hit me.” Angela replied, “We’re in deep shit, Greg… Look!” My vision was groggy at first, but as I slowly pieced together my surroundings, I began to feel a creeping fear seep into my gut. We were in a cell, and outside of those bars, was a sight I wish I’d never seen. The machinery around us looked similar to what I’d seen before, but this was a completely different part of the factory. This looked more like a butcher shop. I could see bodies, human bodies suspended from the ceiling. Their throats had all been cut, and I watched the blood dripping into one of six swimming pool sized mixing vats full of ice wine beneath them, and I suddenly felt sick. That was what I’d been drinking with Brad and Jake… Just above the surface of the wine in each vat, a large propeller spun slowly, making sure that horrible concoction of blood and wine was evenly mixed. I patted my pockets. No sign of my wallet, keys or cell phone. Of course they’d taken those. “Angela? Greg?”Jake sounded like he was in the next cell over, and I’d never heard him so terrified in my life. “What the hell happened!” I asked. “I don’t know! We were drinking the wine, and then Brad was on the floor and… Jesus Christ, did they drug us?” That was the most logical explanation, wasn’t it? “Let’s just shut up, and figure a way out of here!” Angela said, “Jake, Brad’s in there with you, right?” “No! They took him! I don’t know where! Jesus Christ, we need to get out of here! D-do you see the vat?” Angela didn’t reply, but we’d all seen it, and we all knew that. She reached up towards her hair, taking out a hairpin. Something that whoever had emptied our pockets had missed. “I might be able to get this lock…” She murmured, and immediately set to work on it. “Are you picking it? Come on, come on, come on…” Jake groaned, “Hurryyyyy.” Angela worked diligently, before pausing suddenly, and putting her tools into her pockets. I heard the voices down the hall too. “We’ll get them processed today and have this whole thing taken care of. Later on I’ll call our usual guy to get the cars... ” I recognized the voice as Isaacs, and heard his footsteps getting closer. “Ah, you’re awake!” He said. It sounded like he’d stopped in front of Jake’s cell. “What the hell do you want from us?!” I heard Jake say, “You can’t just keep us here! Where’s Brad!?” “Well, like I said you’ve come at an interesting time…” Isaac replied. His tone was even and calm. “Usually, we buy our secret ingredient from the Tallinn Corporation. They deal in that sort of thing mostly. People go missing in the old Soviet Union all the time and no one cares. So we don’t really hurt anyone and we get a better tasting product! But, we do care a lot about quality and we’d like to keep all our ingredients locally sourced, if you catch my meaning.” “W-what the hell…?” It sounded like Jake was crying and Isaac chuckled. “You’ll see soon enough… Shock him, let’s get him processed.” I heard Jake scream as he was tased, and the sound of the cell door opening. Archie and another worker carried Jake past our cell. As they passed, Isaac stepped into our view. “Hey there.” He said smoothly, “I understand if you’re not excited to be in this position… I got the feeling you two didn’t really want to get dragged into this.” “No shit!” Angela snapped, “Where are you taking him?” “To become part of the Greystone legacy.” Isaac teased, and looked up towards the bodies hanging above the mixing vats. “It’s a slow process, but quality takes time… Anyways, I wanted to say, before you get angry, that I am sorry you got dragged into this.” He smiled, and walked away from us, following the others. Angela was silent for a bit, listening to his footsteps fade. When she was sure he was gone, she got the hair clip out of her pocket, and worked on the lock with renewed vigor. It didn’t take long until we heard the click of the lock, but Angela didn’t open it. It didn’t take me long to see why. Archie, his associate and Jake came into view again, this time on a catwalk above the nearest mixing vat. Jake was still unconscious, which made it easy to bind his ankles and place a hanging hook through the rope. “W-what…” Jake’s voice was faint and echoed from the distance, but he was starting to come to. He let out a startled yelp as the hook yanked him up just like the other bodies. “Wait, WAIT, WAITWAITWA-” He didn’t get to finish his pleasing. Archie pulled a knife from his overalls, and opened his throat. Jake squirmed and choked out his death rattle, blood pouring over his face and dripping into the vat below. Shiitake happens. The other worker took a long pole, and used it to push Jake out towards the other bodies, right over the center of the mixing vat. We watched as they prodded the others, before choosing a few to pull towards them and take down. As soon as they were gone, she opened the door to our cell. “We’re leaving.” She said curtly. I didn’t argue. For a moment, I thought about Brad, but Jake had said they’d already taken him. He was probably dead, and I could have cared less! Neither of us knew which way to go, but we opted for the way that Archie and the other worker hadn’t taken Jake. That way led to a hall that seemed impossibly long, and on either side were massive chilled vats of Ice Wine. I tried not to think about just how many people had died to fill these… But the thought still came.How many people around the world were unknowingly drinking human blood in their wine? How many people did it knowingly? Down the hall, I heard a voice, and paused.I ducked into the narrow space between one of the vats, and I saw Angela doing the same across from me. “50% in under three months, now that is unprecedented growth, but it’s doable! I’ve done it. Not everyone can, but if you’ve got the product, you’ve got the brand, and you’ve got the know how, it’s already done!” That was Brad’s voice! I had to peek out from behind my vat, and I saw him and Isaac passing through the hall in front of us, side by side like old friends. “It’s a bold claim.” Isaac said. I wasn’t sure if he was impressed or not, “But you sound like you can back it up.” “Dude, if you just let me show you my numbers, gimme a phone, something. I won’t try anything! But I’m telling you, you’re making the right call. Those other guys? Fuck ‘em. They’re disposable, I mean, hell. I was honestly looking for a chance to get rid of Angela anyways. But me, I’m the one you wanna keep. I get it, this whole operation here, it’s about adding value to your brand. What you’re doing gives the wine it's signature flavor, and it’s honestly kinda hardcore! I dig that! But you and I both know, that I can give you more value right here, like this, then I would in a bottle of wine.” Isaac and his workers were going to slaughter us for wine, and Brad was trying to fucking sell them on his service? I sincerely hoped someone would show up to drag Brad off to the same fate Jake had met, but I didn’t get that wish. “Well, if you’re half of what you claim… Maybe you’d be worth it.” Isaac said thoughtfully. He idly played with his beard. “Let’s say I kept you around, huh? I’m gonna need to make sure you don’t try anything. I’ll give you what you need to work. Just work. Nothing else. You let me down, and you’re going in with the next batch.” “Hey, that’s A-okay with me! I just want the chance!” Brad said, grinning from ear to ear, “Trust me. You and me are gonna do some amazing shit.” Isaac nodded slowly, and from my vantage point, I could see the rage on Angela’s face, but she stayed still. “HEY! CELL’S EMPTY!” Archie’s voice cut through the hall, and both Brad and Isaac looked up suddenly. “They’re out. Find them.” He said, “They can’t be far!” Isaac was coming towards us again, with Brad trailing behind him. I heard Archie coming up from the opposite direction, and I realized that sooner or later, one of them was going to see us. I think Angela knew it too. She moved suddenly, running for her life, and I did the same, but I wasn’t as fast. She slipped past Brad easily enough, but I didn’t get past Isaac. He grabbed me, and I felt Archie grabbing me too. Both of them wrestled me to the ground, and the last thing I remember was a terrible jolt of electricity before everything went black. I woke up in the hall. I don’t know how long later. Archie and another worker had me draped over their shoulders, and dragged me slowly. Ahead of me, I saw Isaac. “Shock him again.” Isaac said. I hadn’t even given any indicator that I was awake, but Archie didn’t waste any time. I didn’t pass out this time, but I wasn’t in any condition to fight. “I know you probably think this is barbaric.” Isaac said, still not looking at me, “It’s… well, an old family tradition. One gets desensitized to it. But as heinous as this all must seem, I need you to understand that this really does make it a superior product! The blood sweetens the wine, and the corpses do wonders for the vineyard. Every year, we have a bountiful harvest. It’s because of this that we’re the best, and if your friend Brad delivers on his promise, we might even be the biggest.” Up ahead, I saw the hanging bodies… But now they were much closer to eye level. “I wouldn’t take it personally.” Isaac said, and stopped, letting us pass him. “Make it quick for this one!” He ordered, “Suffering taints the wine.” With that, I heard him walking away. We were at one of the vats, and Archie shocked me one last time. I felt his associate starting to tie my legs together. Archie pulled the knife from his overalls. “It’s never personal, kid.” He said gruffly. I looked at the knife, my heart racing as I waited for what was coming. Then I heard the worker behind me scream, along with a dull thud. Archie looked up, and I caught a glimpse of Angela behind us. She was holding a shovel, and swung it ruthlessly at Archie’s head. It bounced off his shoulder and he grunted in pain. I didn’t have much time to react, but by God I made the most of it! I grabbed him by the wrist, and jerked his arm towards me, then I sank my teeth into the skin. His grip on the knife loosened, and I tore it out of his hands. Archie kicked out blindly at Angela when she tried to hit him with the shovel again. He uselessly slapped at me to try and keep me away from him, but I had the knife now, and I put it in his throat. It was very personal. Archie twitched, eyes looking up at me in surprise, but as the blood trickled out of his throat, his body went limp. I was panting heavily, and looked over at Angela. The worker she’d hit lay on the ground, unconscious or dead. I didn’t care which. “Are you alright?” She asked, and I absentmindedly nodded, before backing away from Archie’s body. “I just killed this guy…” “Yeah. I guess you did…” Angela replied, “Take the knife, we need to go and…” She swallowed, “We might need it.” I didn’t want to touch that knife. I didn’t even want to look at Archie. I wanted to scream and cry and lose my shit, but I did what she said. It came out easier than I expected. Angela started down the hall again, and I followed, still a little shell shocked from committing a murder! “After I split off from you, I found what I’m pretty sure was Isaacs office.” Angela said, “Here, we needed these.” I saw her reaching into her pocket for my car keys and wallet. “Our phones were missing. Probably broken.” “Shit… We can’t call for help then?” “Which is why we need to focus on getting the hell out of here.” Angela replied, We moved silently. For the time being, there was no sign of any other employees, but we didn’t want to risk it. We both knew there was more than Archie and his associate lurking around. In a few moments, we’d made it back to the lower level of the mixer room. “I think the door to the main factory is down that way.” Angela said, “We just need to find it, and-” A gunshot cut her off. She ducked, and looked around for the source. I saw it before she did, and pulled her towards one of the vats. We ducked beneath it to avoid another shot. “Found you!” Brad cried, “Ah shit… I guess you picked up Greg too, huh?” He held the gun professionally as he crept towards the vat we cowered behind. “Well, I’ve got enough ammo to do you both. I hope you know it’s nothing personal! But it’s honestly just me or you, and even with the… well, unusual recipe, this is still a big client! Do you have any idea what this is gonna do for DMT? Isaac gets me, man!” He was drawing nearer, but even when he had us cornered, Brad was still an idiot. The second he got close to our hiding spot, I was ready. He came into view slowly, and I lunged at him when he did, catching him off guard. The knife went into his shoulder, and I caught the gun across my face. Angela was on him next, tearing at the knife and trying to rip it out of him. Brad struggled against her, and frantically brought the butt of his gun down on her head, over and over again. He shoved Angela off of him, and she hit the ground holding the handle of the knife. The blade poked out of Brads shoulder.He grinned through gritted teeth as we took aim at her, but he wasn’t watching me. I was on my feet again and I grabbed his arm, forcing it upwards. He fired off a stray bullet, but it went harmlessly into the ceiling. Brad may have had a gun, but I was bigger than him. Angela recovered and went with the age old trick of going straight for the groin. I went for the stomach. Brads grip on his gun loosened. I watched as Angela tried to rip it from his hand. But Brad saw that coming. With a jerk of his arm, he sent the gun flying across the factory floor. I didn’t see where it landed. His elbow caught me in the face, and I barely had time to see him drive his fist into Angela’s jaw. He grabbed her by the throat, and got ready to punch again. I grabbed him from behind and tried to drag him off of her. Brad flailed helplessly, and I almost got him there, before his head slammed into my face. The first time just stunned me. The third time, I had to let go. Brad glared hatefully at us once he was free. “I shouldn’t be surprised you two are the ones I have to deal with right now. You’ve always been a poison to MY company, Angela. Since I hired you you’ve been trying to cripple MY success!” His eyes shifted to me. “And you? You’re just dead weight! I am DONE with you people! I am DONE with your disrespect!” He probably had more to say, but Angela didn’t give him the chance. She’d noticed something that Brad hadn’t. He was standing right in front of a vat. As he opened his mouth to speak again, she lunged for him, pushing him back towards it. I caught on quickly and went to help her. Between the two of us, we were able to press him right up against the vat. Angela and I traded a brief look, before I ducked down, grabbing Brad by the legs. She pushed him by the shoulders. Brad struggled, but he went into that vat of blood and wine. The mixers arm was coming around again. I know Brad saw it in the moment before it struck him over the head. I don’t know if it killed him, but the force of it pulled him into the vat entirely. Given how little of a struggle there was, I’d have guessed it just knocked him unconscious. The arm dragged him around the vat slowly, his head submerged in that disgusting mixture of blood and wine he’d been willing to murder us over. We didn’t stick around to see if he was ever going to wake up, and as far as I’m concerned, he drowned in that vat. I wish I'd said 'Cheers'. The next room was more familiar territory. This was part of what Isaac had shown us, and we sprinted for the door, and through the empty vineyard. It was starting to get dark. Halfway through it, I let myself look back. I could see people coming out of that long barn, and I didn’t wait for them to start running after me.The gazebo was up ahead, along with my car and Brad’s ugly orange coupe. I didn’t waste any time getting inside my car, and as soon as Angela and I had our doors closed, we were speeding off down our driveway, as fast as we could go. We drove until the next town over, and made it to the police station looking like hell. I’m pretty sure my statement came out as a rambling incoherent mess, but I didn’t care. I told them just about everything… except the part where I murdered Archie and helped drown Brad. If the Police believed my statement… I never found out. I heard talk of an investigation, but from what I understood, they found nothing. Not even Brad’s ugly orange coupe. DMT dissolved quickly without him. He and Jake were just considered to have disappeared. Brads so called ‘fans’ barely seemed to notice his absence.Our story never got out. I still talk with Angela on occasion, but we don’t talk about Niagara. The unspoken agreement is that we did what we had to do, to survive. We both know that, and we don’t need to remember. I almost wish we could talk about it though… I wish I could talk to her about the nightmares I’ve had of drowning in a vat of freezing cold wine. I wish I could talk to her about the anxiety I have whenever I’m alone. I wish I could tell her that I received a bottle of ice wine from Greystones Winery in the mail the other day. Because I don’t know who else to tell. I wish I knew if Isaac is congratulating me on my escape, mocking me for my inability to stop him… or warning me...
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